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Messages - Frumple

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6316
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 12, 2018, 01:29:39 pm »
Quote from: Arx on January 12, 2018, 12:53:48 pm
RedKing, I'm surprised how little empathy you seem to have for Republicans given that you're behaving exactly the same way as them except on the other side. You're railing on in literally exactly the same way as Republicans that want to repeal Obama's laws just because Obama made them.
Well, no. He's railing on them because of what they've done, not who has done it. Unless you call hating obama for being a black person doing friggin' anything as equivalent to being real pissed off at the GOP (or businessfolk, or whoever) for that whole decades of persistent sabotage and hate thing, I guess.

That said, it also looks a fair bit like he doesn't give a shit if it is the same, so long as it can screw over the folks that have been fucking him over for the last basically ever. Empathy burns out pretty easily if it gets pissed on for a few decades, really...

Quote from: RedKing on January 12, 2018, 12:07:18 pm
Can I just say that if anyone, ANYONE ran on a platform of something like "Let's draw and quarter the CEOs of the Fortune 500 and hang their severed body parts in front of the NYSE as a warning", they'd have my vote in a heartbeat?

"Fuck the other tribe" resonates BEAUTIFULLY for me these days. I don't want "justice" or "fairness", I want total-war, scorched-earth REVENGE. Revenge for the last 20 years of my working life being largely for naught, and pre-emptive revenge for the next 20 years being just to avoid bankruptcy.
Sure. It'll do it for some people. Hell, I'm not entirely against it -- I've mentioned before that I'd give good odds literally beheading most of our healthcare system's upper management would cause an improvement to said system, ferex -- though I'd hella' rather just do something that doesn't involve explicit mass murder. Definitely past the point of having a degree of sympathy for the whole fucked for the last forever pass the pitchfork and torches thing. Don't really want blood but it's a fair bit past the point of understanding the allure.

I'm just pretty damn sure there's a real damn big portion of the potential democrat/leftwing coalition that would be notably turned off by moving towards that sort of thing. End of the day there's a lot of folks that really just kinda' don't like that sort of shit, and turning away from it is a notable portion of why they consistently don't vote R. Plenty of room in regards to policy inclination, but scorched earth rhetoric is hella' more likely to burn Ds, as much or more than it rallies them, than is worth risking shit on. End of the day we need catharsis like we need decency, to exactly the point it wins elections/gets the conservative wing of the country to stop actively shitting on everything.

... and while folks pissed enough to stop giving a shit about much but hurting those that hurt them do seem to be growing, they're still a damn sight distance from being large enough in number to make up for what that'd repel. At the absolute least, you'll probably need another 10-20 years at minimum before it starts reaching that point. Enough for most folks over around 40-50-ish to start falling out of political relevancy. Until then, the moral high ground shit is going to matter, regardless of how loudly people screech about it not winning elections. The lack can still damn well lose them, too.

6317
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 12, 2018, 11:17:03 am »
... also, even in some odd future where there is only enough for five, just RNG would leave you better off than the 1 & 9 if you really can't figure out how to get enough food on all the plates. Only being able to feed five doesn't mean nine should starve and one should eat. There's nothing subtle about the scenario being screwed up, or about how roughly any change (save maybe ones that involve actually eating people) would be an improvement.

End of the day optimum can get fucked until we have better.* Frankly can get fucked afterwards too if we can manage less optimization to continue to make things better.

* And if you really want to quibble over what that is, call back when hunger, homelessness, lack of healthcare, and lack of effective shelter against natural disaster are all casual choices made freely instead of more or less anything else. It's a good starting point.

6318
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 12, 2018, 05:48:58 am »
Quote from: martinuzz on January 12, 2018, 05:02:59 am
How the f did that guy become embassador in the first place?
By being an ambassador that embarrassed our country :V

... incidentally, I could get behind hijacking the old unused variant. Ambassador that more or less is an active detriment to their country's dignity. It's a nice encapsulated description of some of the louder shitty ambassadorial appointees, and gives a reason for embassador to exist that isn't annoying people and confusing spellcheckers.

6319
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 12, 2018, 12:37:59 am »
No, no. That year, there will be no insurgency.

That year, there will be only fire. Only fire. Nothing else. Even the ashes will burn.

... and not just all of california for the nth time.

6320
Other Games / Re: Realms Beyond - a turn-based cRPG based on D&D 3.5e (with Dwarves)
« on: January 11, 2018, 11:28:13 pm »
... oddly disappointed this isn't more knights of the chalice and less procedural icewind dale or summat. Apparently there's a yearning I didn't notice for a more modern (in general usability and UI, but not so much graphics) first Darksun era-ish cRPG. I kinda' miss those old blocky but not too blocky sprites and what they largely entailed for world interaction (and particularly combat), if not trying to navigate around without stuff like maps or whatever.

Though I guess it's more procedural neverwinter nights (2?) with icewind dale-ish graphics, looking a bit more. Which doesn't really sound that bad, whenever it finishes development. The name would probably end up vaguely annoying, though. Quick check 'cause it sounded familiar looked to have pulled up at least one other game with that in the title, something else that might possibly be an old Civ mod, and a handful of other things.

6321
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 11, 2018, 09:43:30 pm »
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on January 11, 2018, 07:27:27 pm
Quote from: Frumple on January 11, 2018, 07:09:41 pm
Third highest turnout in the last half-ish century, mate.*
For Trump! Millions more Republicans came out to vote, because Trump was interesting to them! Clinton didn't even beat Obama's 2012 numbers!
By numbers it was less than 100k even as total share dropped (which isn't exactly bad for a post two term presidency, near as I can recall), and that compared to one of the largest turnout drivers we've seen in a while (i.e. obama); percentage was more of a slide, but trump lost ground on that front. That interesting lost the GOP vote share. Which is a something approaching neat party trick, considering he did get a couple million more votes than romney in the raw and the dem share dropped, too. Trump was apparently less interesting than goddamn romney to this country despite our total pop going up enough to net him more voters in terms of raw numbers.

Is it really not getting across that moving in trump's direction in terms of rhetoric is seriously bloody risky at best, regardless of how fucked our electoral system got in 2016? That shit got him the EC (and there's zero guarantee it'd do the same for dems, considering what we now know of the voting impetus behind his voters, and doubly so if after the next few years it doesn't work out for them). It lost him the popular vote. It lost him ground on percent of the population, when he had more going for him (except himself, anyway) than just about any GOP candidate in history. It's ended up giving us what's already one of the biggest shitshows of an administration in living memory at a minimum. It's made him fucking incredibly disliked, very much notably so among democrats. I would not give good odds a pivot towards that style would end well for left-wing politics in the US, particularly after another three years of being exposed to the results.

Something in obama's direction in terms of speaking would probably help (and it'd be real damn great if my generation or the next pulls a rabbit out their hat on that front in the next few years), but a great deal of the democrat party has a helluva' lot of concern about that nerd bullshit and are just a wee goddamn titch sketchy about what starts happening when populism's stuff and that hyperaggression bullshit starts showing up.

The democrat party and left wing americans in general are not the GOP, and a lot of that villain fuck the other tribe shit doesn't resonate nearly as well, especially without the decades of priming right wing media has been hammering the GOP base with. Maybe that'll change in the next few years, but if it doesn't going that route would screw us sideways about as fast as straight up running trump as a dem candidate would at this point.

6322
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 11, 2018, 07:09:41 pm »
I'unno, half decade gap in average age is pretty noticeable. Beyond that it'd be more than just age split involved. Boomers still have a notably disproportionate influence on media and political campaigns, near as I can recall. You maybe can't blame all of it on them but if you're feeling like it you can probably still manage a pretty huge amount.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on January 11, 2018, 06:11:14 pm
I truly do not understand what this hyperreality of "Clinton really wins because of the popular vote" is, but it's ridiculous. If you repeat that election Clinton loses every time. There's no "secret actually", there is what goddamn happened. If losing to Trump can't be a wakeup call nothing is. If she and what she represents were what people wanted, you might think that they'd get off their asses to vote for it.
Third highest turnout in the last half-ish century, mate.* By the time everything finally got sodding counted it turned out a lot of people got off their asses and voted. Looks a helluva' lot like a lot of that has roughly jag all to do with messaging, though, and more to do with procedure -- some/most of the highest turnout areas were all same-day registration states, apparently.

Who the hell actually won isn't the point, the goddamn point is the message that was ran with seems to be what a sodding massive amount of people wanted, apparently enough to even cut through the shit shower that was being sprayed over everything at the time. More energy or whatev' is a pretty good thing regardless, but we seriously don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot by ignoring that shit like what clinton was running on is still pretty damn attractive to a lot of people.

* E: First was unsurprisingly obama's first go, but #2 was apparently friggin' kerry during bush's reelection back in '04. Bloody hell, I think I had forgotten that guy existed...

6323
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 11, 2018, 05:57:49 pm »
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on January 11, 2018, 05:21:19 pm
It does not goddamn matter for electoral consequences that Clinton won the popular vote except to further prove the electoral college is our generational blood curse and should be abolished. Good job, but the Republicans will never let it go now that they rely on it for victory. Gonna have to defeat them by having Democrats who aren't just holding on for the Republicans to take back their Rightful Seats before you can take advantage of that.
It kinda' does goddamn matter, considering it's a blatant sign (particularly considering the massive pile of bullshit that was going on during the election) the country does not actually want shit in trump's direction and is in fact pretty damn okay with a bureaucrat and nerd bullshit, or at the very least isn't the part of our population that's particularly impressed by conman/populist bullshit instead. EC may be a generational blood curse, but that don't mean we start up a new one by ignoring what massive chunks of the electorate are indicating they want, either.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on January 11, 2018, 05:21:19 pm
the Democrats as a whole have persistently failed in that way ever since triangulation.
Yeeeaaah, except not. We'll have a better idea how much not come november-ish, but "democrats as a whole" have to all appearances been overperforming for a good chunk of last year and so far as I've noticed show little to no signs of slowing down. Given we're actually fucking hearing about stuff like the petition down here in florida to fix the bullshit that is lifelong disenfranchisement of ex-cons, it'll pretty damn unsurprising if it friggin' speeds up.

6324
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 11, 2018, 05:12:05 pm »
Still not actually sure about that villain vs bureaucrat thing. And by not sure I mean pretty damn certain otherwise. More of the goddamn country voted for the identified bureaucrat, and a good chunk that didn't were under the always delightful delusion trump was just going to fuck other people and come down on the side of whatever slice of the issues they cared about. They didn't want a villain, they just took one when they thought it would benefit them. Dash of the whole decades of media manipulation starting to pay bigger dividends did much of the rest of the work.

... also sanders can still fuck off. Let someone younger and less backstabby take whatever reigns are being passed around. Seem to recall at least some slices of the folks just starting to get old enough they're allowed to run for office are starting to get rolling. Probably about damn time, and it's pretty damn certainly about time we started nudging the old shits off the metaphorical benches. Gotta' keep some around 'cause our fucked up society means the elderly have disproportionate electoral weight, but voter demographics are finally building up steam to undermine that shit.
Quote from: smjjames on January 11, 2018, 03:56:21 pm
Meanwhile, Clinton can't seem to let go of the fact that she lost and a good chunk of it was due to her own failings.
If by can't seem to let go you mean she's repeatedly acknowledged that and largely stepped back for others to come in, I guess. Because that's been happening pretty steadily.

Quote from: helmacon on January 11, 2018, 03:33:53 pm
On that matter, I've yet to see anyone who was a major Hillary supporter take any responsibility for the loss. To hear it from them, she ran a flawless campaign, and it was just bigotry and corruption that lost her the election. It's just childish.
Then you've either been not looking for it or intentionally misreading stuff. The position major hillary supports have mostly taken is that the campaign did indeed fuck up in places, it's just that there was, you know, other shit involved than how the campaign was ran. Racism rearing its head (there was no better predictor of voting trump than racial animus), GOP voter suppression efforts paying off (last I noticed at least one state was flipped R by a smaller margin than they had disenfranchised/electorally cockblocked voters that pretty damn certainly would have voted otherwise), what amounts to blatant malfeasance on the part of certain government officials (comey, mostly), that whole "hostile foreign power" thing, the decades long defamation campaign mess, etc., etc.

Oddly enough, bigotry and corruption actually are significant chunks what got us the electoral college shitting on the popular vote again.

6325
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 11, 2018, 01:09:32 am »
Quote from: smjjames on January 10, 2018, 10:33:14 pm
RedKing is definetly going to be happy with this (I forget if he lives in SC or NC, but he'll be happy either way).
RK's in NC, yes. Least if he hasn't moved or been washed out to sea.

6326
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you mildly sad today thread: remove burrito edition
« on: January 10, 2018, 07:12:25 pm »
... yeah, long-ish term stuff like that kinda' blows. Went through about half a year of that when I was younger, if outside the hospital and somewhat more mobile. Laptop et al* really does help these days, though, at least once you acclimate to largely not being able to do anything else but fiddle with one. Hopefully the bed is at least comfy. Comfy as possible, considering, anyway.

* Or just setting up a desktop in usable reach, though that's probably less viable in a hospital.

E: Also you totally can acclimate to staving off boredom entirely or nearly entirely with something like that, or some other idle pursuit! If it's a worry or summat. You figure something out, or you get something resembling cabin fever and go bugnuts for a while.

6327
General Discussion / Re: The future of the Bay12 forums
« on: January 10, 2018, 07:03:40 pm »
Pretty sure not particularly official, but there definitely is one. Could swear I remember more than one, even.

6328
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 10, 2018, 07:01:47 pm »
... so, uh. Literally pay to play. Huh.

6329
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 10, 2018, 05:53:33 pm »
Probably no more than they would Oprah Oprah.

6330
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol: Back to work Congress!
« on: January 10, 2018, 05:32:43 pm »
Quote from: misko27 on January 10, 2018, 04:24:07 pm
Quote from: Frumple on January 08, 2018, 07:14:16 pm
It wouldn't get my vote on its own, but it would certainly help.
I figured that, as it would solidify the supervillain vote, Oprah's unleashing bees would gain her the unqualified support of Bay12.
Sadly, not all supervillains are created equal insofar as governance goes. Unending swarms of bees aren't enough on their own, these days. Just as mermaids would not have had their children's bones harvested were they not expensive, the ethos of b12 takes more than just supervillainy. There also needs to be things like a continued assurance of food, perhaps in the form of nutrient enriched honey.

Quote
Meanwhile, this is, um, something.
Yeah, wouldn't count the chickens before they hatch, and all that. Trump's trump, gods know how he'd react if the bill was actually on the table and who the hell knows if the GOP could even manage to pass it even if trump maintained it. That said...
Quote
A longtime member of the Appropriations Committee, Aderholt said he could back a return to earmarks “as long as it’s done on a fair and transparent basis.” He said it’s better for elected representatives to dole out government cash, rather than “a group of bureaucrats a thousand miles away.”

“The misnomer about that is that it is a ‘swamp’ issue,” Aderholt said. “You could make the argument that this is more getting rid of the swamp, holding people accountable.”
... heh. You can make that argument, it just takes either brain damage or blatant duplicity. Which I guess means we'll get to see it at some point in the next few years.

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