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Messages - Frumple

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6976
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 21, 2017, 02:28:34 pm »
It's not necessarily abnormal so far as american family sizes go (if not terribly common, either), though it isn't normal for presidents, from what I could tell. Obama's was 31 or so total, trump's over that by 11-ish.

Though no, not really following him around too much, far as I noticed. Just doing things like traveling overseas to conduct business, which still requires a protection detail. Pretty sure most close family (and maybe close friends?) get coverage regardless of where they are, for reasons that should be really, really obvious.

6977
Mind you, they're harmless, just somewhat awkward to be around. Bloody things are the ceiling cats of the interdimensional sea.

6978
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 21, 2017, 02:16:19 pm »
Well, this is fun. The short form is that between trump's family et al and him shirking weekends or whathaveyou to go chill at wherever (usually that he owns, funneling who knows how much taxpayer money into his coffers), secret service employees are hitting the legal limit on their salary and overtime compensation; i.e. they've straight up maxed out the amount the organization can pay them, as per decree of congress.

Director's saying over 1k workers have entirely capped out with ~four months left to go in the year, which is something like a sixth or seventh their total workforce, near as I can tell. Dunno exactly how many times it's happened previously, but it doesn't seem to be many.

E: Though, that said, they've also been skirting it for a while now, apparently. Current admin's just the bad toupee that broke the camel's back.

6979
General Discussion / Re: Psst, the Eclipse is in progress.
« on: August 21, 2017, 02:02:48 pm »
Clearly you must go outside and moon the Moon for this indignity. Hurry, before it goes away!

6980
General Discussion / Re: Psst, the Eclipse is in progress.
« on: August 21, 2017, 01:53:47 pm »
Going to be a good hour or so before it's as covered as it'll get where I'm at, I think. Near as I can tell, since I just remembered to check timing a few hours ago and it's annoyingly difficult to just plug in a zip code or somethin' and have it tell me when the hell I should go outside. Supposedly started cooking off like twenty, thirty minutes ago, but it's hard to tell. You can definitely tell there's somethin' going on with the lighting, but it's not terribly noticeable, yet.

... not 100% sure I'm going to able to stay awake that long, though. Woke up at like four this morning rather sick, and it's only changed from sketchy stomach to headmurder since. Pretty sure eclipse curse is a safe assumption, here.

6981
General Discussion / Re: Trump - does anything really change?
« on: August 21, 2017, 01:45:59 pm »
Gods, if only it was that easy. Supposedly higher wages, while it may increase overall participation, also pushes some folks out of the market, or something along those lines. Either by out pricing their skillset or forcing the businesses to hire fewer, more efficient workers (because they're only a per worker cap from being willing to hire more people, rather than, y'know, see fewer more efficient workers as the base state of hiring heuristics or somethin').

Think it's something like an assumption we're already at or near peak employment so far as higher wages go (or the ones being hired are assumed by dint of their clear higher paying job superiority to have been able to obtain the position anyway), but have this weird low wage lot that isn't tapped, and will surely show up if you lower standards (and consequently wages) enough. Probably some of that fundamental attribution error thing going on, heh. Some kind of base assumption that not having work means you're unskilled to the points companies need to lower standards to be able to afford hiring you, something along those lines.

... and yeah, sure. Most observations, base understanding of economics, and so on, and so forth, signal pretty insistently that that shit ain't gon' work. Stuff gets labeled voodoo economics for a reason, heh.

6982
General Discussion / Re: Trump - does anything really change?
« on: August 21, 2017, 01:16:08 pm »
Think the concept there isn't so much that they want it, but that there's a chunk that are so low skill and/or otherwise undesirable they can't get hired at minimum wage and have given up trying. If you get rid of minimum wage, why, suddenly they're able to get hired! Even further below a living wage than the minimum was.

I'm... not entirely sure exactly what good that would do, especially considering it's usually pushed alongside gutting welfare and turning the clock on healthcare back to jesus fuck time (I.e. pre-ACA. Post being merely Jesus or fuck depending on preference), though. Like... congrats. You brought pennies on the hour out of for profit prisons and back to our shores. Enjoy back breaking labor and the new slum life/homelessness, dying young, and a degree of social mobility that is existence laughing at you even harder than it does now.

More people are hired, maybe, but it doesn't much help them... or the nation, for that matter, what with the "nice" infusion of desperate underclass and everything that means for places that are already screwed over when they're just screwed rather than being actively sodomized by companies taking advantage of people trying not to starve. Voodoo economics, as they say. Get people hired and magically all problems will be solved! Living wage? What's that? Can you eat it? Please, god, tell me you can eat it.

6983
General Discussion / Re: Trump - does anything really change?
« on: August 21, 2017, 08:41:11 am »
... any case, folks under the impression the admin and the ones that want them to rubber stamp aren't doing much could probably stand to pay a bit  more attention to what the hell's been actually happening. Congress hasn't really been tied up except on a few subjects, and the executive is cheerfully doing enough damage to our state apparatus we're going to be lucky if it just takes one presidential term for whoever comes after to fix it.

Hopefully it won't be on the level of the friggin' civil war or some crap, but stuff is definitely happening and most signs point to it not being good for near everyone in this country (or most anywhere else, really). This term might not be the cliff the more conservative side of our spectrum have been trying to fling themselves off of with the rest of us as collateral, but it's going to be felt when we finish driving over it. Probably take years to sort things out if it ended tomorrow, never mind another three years of this mess.

6984
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 20, 2017, 12:40:04 am »
Still, the point I was kind of trying to make is that should we remove ALL confederate statues or just the ones explictly considered to be Civil War statues.
I'd... probably say all or most, really. If for no other reason than I'm not entirely sure what the difference would be, given that there more or less wasn't a confederacy before the war and there wasn't particularly one after it, either.

'Course, by "remove", I'm talking just... out of the way. Edge of town away from major motorway kinda' stuff, if not in a museum or dedicated memorial park type thing. Probable exceptions for simple memorials, ala the major 'nam one... maybe stuff that's particularly well done and/or tasteful, gives proper weight to the kinda' ruddy vile choice the folks down here made, if some way to do that could be hashed out. We can do remembrance without glorification and whatnot.

Idle thought, honestly, would be to just... ask. Town/city in general, specific neighborhood(s) if there's no notable roadways nearby, maybe whoever can be identified as using said road if it is. Stuff like that. Maybe mandate that they're going to be moved, and away from official use buildings, but negotiations open after that. If you really want to have "fun", give the town a vote and have the white population count for 3/5ths :V don't actually do that, seriously goddamn More seriously, could just give disproportionate weight to minorities in the area with it being quite so on the nose. I could see something like... minority populations in the area gets to decide if a particular statue will be moved, but actually removing it from (a certain radius around the) town would take a full population vote.

Could see something like a... bidding system, I guess, too. Something like it. Allow for their destruction with a certain degree of community support, but also allow for outside towns (and/or individuals) a chance to claim the monument should it be slated for getting wrecked. They pay transportation and instillation fees and someone that really doesn't want the things gone can just... get 'em instead.

Plenty of stuff in those sorts of directions to utilize, really. There kinda' are fairly easy and clear-cut ways to figure out how to go about this stuff, if the political and practical will can be brought to bear. Fundamentally you're just moving a hunk of material with some input from the community, with a few limits to make sure some batch of jackasses or another don't try to put it somewhere stupid. If folks actually want to get it done, they probably wouldn't need to butt heads much beyond that.

6985
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 19, 2017, 08:27:26 pm »
I mean... the compromise is easy, so long as someone can pay for it? Or there's... I'unno, enough people willing to volunteer to do the work or somethin'.

Just, y'know. Keep the statues and monuments and whatnot. But move them away from like... main street and shit. Out from in front of court houses and such, even if it's just the old ones kept around for memorial's sake. Maybe have a little bit added on to whatever to highlight the whole you wa shit thing, just to be sure, if there's not already.

Though, so far as I'm aware, nudging confed crap kinda' out of the way isn't really recent, per se. Seem to remember bits and baubles of it bubbling up from the depths of the news every once in a long while for a good two, three decades... probably more before that, too. It's just started getting to the point the efforts aren't as easy to ignore, both from a "Statue, what statue, you see no statue, now go away, also we'll jail your ass if you try to move that definitely not a statue to somewhere less wang-in-facey" sense and so far as general public awareness.

... part of me just realized there may be a point to wonder, there. We're not too many years off from becoming majority minority, and projections and whatnot have had enough time to sink in. Might explain part of the reason(s) why it's becoming an issue with more public awareness of it. Folks primarily shat on by it is getting a bit more parity in political weight, or at least more able to call in help that wasn't existent or punchy (in the legal/economic punch sense) enough to warrant much attention previously.

@Max
I would build on what you said and say that the vast, overwhelming majority of Southerners are not hatefilled racists. For them and myself, we must have some connection to this past.
A: So let's let that connection not be the stuff racist shitbags used to take a dump on our neighbors in the early to mid 1900s :P I don't think we explicitly need an attack on civil rights sitting down town to keep a connection to the past.

And if we do, we have a helluva' lot bigger problem than some freaking statues. I know our education system down here's pretty rough and humanities endowments few and slender, but damn, come on. If it's that bad sell the things and hire a wandering historian/teacher troop to go from town to town telling us of the kinda' shitty song of our people. They can bring music! The song of our people is kinda' shit but bluegrass and mountain music and all the rest of it is on point.

Also, B: You're fairly accurate saying the overwhelming majority of southerners are not hatefilled racists, heh. Most of it's much more low key and... atmospheric (?), for lack of a better word. Of course you avoid black neighborhoods, of course the black dude going down the street is probably peddling drugs, of course you're going to take a long and mighty piss on your kids or family if they bring home black/mexican/etc. relationship fodder. Etc., etc. Just part of how things work, lotta' times folks just straight up don't notice they're doing it. Sometimes even when you point it out, there's a half dozen reasons they attribute it to unrelated to race! There's just this oddly consistent pattern in what they entail (various degrees of racism) and what triggers the reactions (not!white people).

6986
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 19, 2017, 12:15:07 pm »
There is that, aye. Forgot about it, most of the ones in this area aren't really old enough (and/or no one cares enough) to worry too much about that.

6987
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 19, 2017, 12:08:48 pm »
Eh, depends on the size of the school and exactly what would be involved. If they're having to do construction to get rid of/change bits, that can be a nice extra chunk of change. More stuff getting things square administratively, both in the school's immediate area and places outside... there's probably more than one college grad running around that can tell you exactly how fun things get when their high school or college changes names and they try to get/transfer into another joint that didn't get the message.

That said, yeah, it does still seem pretty high if it's a school in an already underfunded area. Would half guess they're planning on funding parts of it with grants or summat, which could very, very easily cause the total amount spent to hike up pretty hard. It's pretty common you don't really get anything beneficial if you only use part of a grant's funding... sometimes there's even penalties for it. So a school/program wanting/having to fund something they want done that way can result in what looks a lot like wasteful spending.

... which it kinda' is, but it's basically not the school's fault, and not doing could end up even more wasteful (for the school or whatev', anyway, if not whoever's providing the money).

Though. Now that I actually check. Signage, uniform changes, revamping facilities*, yeah, that looks like it might not be terribly out of line. There's also the fact that the article used the good ol' weaselshite "up to", which says probably worse than nothing about how much the school actually intends to spend and lets the article writer throw out a big number to piss people off draw attention to the reporting.

* Which sounds a lot less like, say, repainting the walls to change the name, and more like using the name change as an excuse to upgrade. It's well worth noting that kind of thing is not uncommon for schools, particularly underfunded ones. Sometimes it's the only way you can get the jackasses holding the purse strings to fork over money for stuff like vital repairs.

6988
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 19, 2017, 06:59:03 am »
It's arguably the most important change in recent history, on-par with manufacturing, and there's no real telling what all of the social effects are going to be.
Like, everything else aside. I'm old enough to remember a good bit of things before the 'net really kicked in, and been around people much of my life that had a good chunk of their lives pass before the internet came about at all.

It's a net positive. It's a net fucking positive. It's a massive fucking net positive. My eyes feel like they want to gouge out parts of my skull right now, so putting this in better words probably isn't going to happen all that effectively.

But, like. I've said it before. I'll say it again. The past was shit. It was shit. Every aspect that's piss poor about the 'net was just as bad or worse before it, just more localized, with less choice and information access involved, and so on. People had their head stuck up the ass of social interaction pre-net, too, they just did it within the context of their town/neighborhood/etc. People wasted free time doing sod all (drinking was always fun!) pre-net, it's just the amount they could do with it was less, due to lack of ability to communicate, coordinate, check information about X, Y, or Z, and so on.

Every aspect of the creative arts were comparatively hobbled; there is currently literally no part of the creative sphere of human efforts that has not seen quantitative, and generally qualitative as well, improvement. Literally none. Music, writing, drawn arts, performance, bloody everything. Over the course of around the 90s all that shit basically exploded. We're currently seeing processes in the development of genres and styles that would have taken decades or centuries pre-net, because there is basically nothing better for an artist of any stripe than having what amounts to the near total of their respective interest at their fingertips, and nothing better for a field of any stripe than having what amounts to the near total of their techniques and whatnot at the fingertips of people interested in them. What would have taken days, weeks, and a bucketload of cash just to find (initial instructions, someone willing to teach, examples or points of inspiration, partners for one project or another, and so on) now can take minutes or hours, and cost nothing but the time and bandwidth. Even with whatever inefficiencies or whathaveyou it introduces, the gains outweigh them to the point it's almost farcical. I've talked with art folks that would very much very literally kill to keep the state of things in that area from rolling back four or five decades.

Every aspect of the productive aspects of personal and societal output were hobbled. The ability to reach out to other people doing the same thing, share methodology, arrange to split projects, figure out where resource X, Y, or Z is and how to best get it, etc., has increased by something approaching an order or two of magnitude. People can spend a week or two with their head up their own ass, because half the time they're still getting shit done faster than they would have when it would have otherwise taken days or weeks just for a request or some shit to reach its recipient to begin with, never mind anything come of it.

The information bubbles were harder to pop, the vitriol more local and you damn sure better believe no nicer for it -- just quieter at the best -- just basically bloody everything was worse, and everything it had that wasn't is still here. Half the time having your head up the ass of social media 9/10ths of your time still has the remaining 1/10th do more than you would have done with it in the full 10/10ths a half century ago 'cause you bloody couldn't do things with chunks of it then, the infrastructure to enable it on an information and communication level didn't exist. Every problem the damned internet causes is either less than it was previously, such that it doesn't actually remove whatever came before it that mitigated the problem, opens up several times the options that previously existed to deal with it, or about a half-dozen things beside.

Just... seriously. I would say with very, very little hesitation that the internet, for all its associated issues, is straight up the most important thing our species has done to date, bar none. Best thing, too, relatively, though there's a good chunk of other things that're closer to it on that front. It's a communicative paradigm shift for a social species that has its best performance come out when collaborating, and has even individual efforts improve when access to certain breakpoints of information. Goddamn thing is a force multiplier for humanity like we've never seen before, and it's just getting started. Its problems are problems relative to itself and what it enables, and often enough gains from yesteryear anyway. A century ago this shit would have been more magic than just about anything else we can do. The internet has made goddamn wizards of all of us.

a. your left or right eye is glued shut for the entire day and the index+middle fingers of the opposite hand are glued together for the same period

or

b. you can not make use of any device with an internet connection or log into your user accounts on any devices you own


What seems more awful?
B, no doubt, no hesitation. For me it's less like an eye or a few fingers than it is an arm or a leg. As y'say, it's like part of your brain is missing, and as y'note, it's because part of it functionally is, now that many of us are effectively cyborgs storing part of our cognitive functions in external hardware. which we do because just good goddamn we built the crap to take over that stuff for a reason, and the reason is it's a lot better, or at the absolute least a lot more consistent, at whatever it is than we are otherwise

6989
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 18, 2017, 09:42:13 pm »
On the whole debate with the confederate statues, I found this: Putting them in a sort of 'memento park' with the historical context around them might be a workable idea. The main idea would be to put them into context in a sort of outdoors museum or something.
I think I may have mentioned that just about every time I've talked with anyone about these damn statues. Memorial parks are a thing. There's crap like pioneer settlements that have restored antique buildings. All sorts of junk like that. Hell, maybe if you spun it hard enough you could actually get some jerks to fund the ruddy humanities.

Also totally want to get in on the eco discussion but also entirely too fucked up right now. Will just say most time it's not really economics that are failing, but jackasses refusing to listen to what the hell it's trying to tell them. Can't just write off externalities you jackfucks! It's part of the bloody economic picture! Stakeholders involve more than you, your customers, and your stockholders! CEO shits could stand to knock it the hell off and start actually trying to run a bloody business instead of an updated robber barony or some crap. Also some shit it just doesn't work. Economics've told you capitalist people a thousand goddamn times sometimes this shit just does not work with certain sorts of services. This is literally high school level. Stop, damnit.

... I've just realized I'm like those confed enthusiast folks pissed off at nazis and white supremacists and racist fucks in general for jacking their shtick. Except with businessy stuff.

6990
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« on: August 18, 2017, 09:24:58 pm »
Not overnight. Passenger didn't bring meds, more or less had to come back. First time I've drove at night in, like. Year, year and a half? I've been avoiding it.

Avoiding it for a reason, which has since gotten worse. Head hurts, eyes hurt, muscles approaching sore for reasons, tremors acting up worse than usual. 'Bout fell down and/or dropped something, like. Maybe three times getting into the house? Drove about an hour mostly without being able to see more than two, three hundred feet ahead of the car except when brights were on, which caused its own problems. Intermittent blindness, because of course oncoming traffic fucks my eyes just as hard as it did. Even harder than it was to judge distances.

Turns out I've found a new way the mild hallucinations I wasn't bothered much with manifest. Apparently when your eye/brain connection's haywire state generally involves moving shit in your peripheral vision, you fucking see things off the side of the road when you're driving at night. also occasionally other places, hello dancing red lights in the middle of the road a ways ahead that weren't actually there. Which is extra bonus fun time when you're going down a twisty forest flanked road in deer country.

Also every speed felt like... 1.2x faster or something. Probably because I was effectively driving down a tunnel.

Felt like shit leaving. Feel like an entirely different sort of shit now. Still was safer than said passenger driving. Probably going to have to do it again at some point in the future. Going to try to convince other family members to not fucking do this to me again.

E: Ha ha ha. Sorta' have. Problem is scheduling. Can't help too much without knowing something's going to be happening. Fucking no shit problem is scheduling, if I had known myself more than ~45 minutes before we left none of that would have goddamn happened. I'm just going to stop for a few hours or days or something now.

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