Bay 12 Games Forum

I can't believe there's people on this forum that actually think Clinton was the best candidate for Dems. Before the primaries were over it seemed Bay12 pol threads were for Bernie and hated Hilldawg.

Man, space, I've actually mentioned that before. I did support bernie at the start of the primary, and while didn't hate hillary was pretty damn skeptical -- I had heard the constant repetitions of warhawk, fair-weather activist, corporate stooge, etc. Actually voted for sanders in the primary, for all that I regretted it by the time the primary was called. By that point his actions had soured me on him and I had actually got off my ass and saw what the hullabaloo was about clinton. Didn't take long after that to realize just how bloody sodding empty or wrought with double-standard/vicious ignorance the vast majority of criticisms of her are, when they're not just outright sodding lies that have all the evidence  available in the world to identify as such for anyone sane, but close to no one willing to actually check. And after that I started paying attention to what she's actually done, and not what people keep spewing bullshit about what she's done. It's a pretty damn good picture if you actually give the least amount of effort to crosscheck or filter for gratuitous distortion.

As I've noted vis a vis our media and population. Quite a lot of folks didn't.

Quote from: Leafsnail on November 09, 2016, 01:38:04 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on November 09, 2016, 01:35:49 pm

Except it isn't, and if he tries, we should sue him.

He's going to appoint justices who will do that for him.

Can the President be sued for gross negligence?

If he's impeached first, TBF. Unless it was going through before the vote.

Where, breitbart? Fox News? Hillary had the BBC, CNN, NYP, etc, all with her. Of course, those outlets did comment on the emails issue, because those things are actualy a bigger issue than the stuff that got thrown at Trump, because those got progressively more minized because the same accusations were just repeated over and over, rather than actualy expanded upon, and so became seen as mostly baseless, while the scandals involving Hillary just piled on.

Bigger issue? Trump did literally what clinton was only accused of -- intentionally deleting emails while under investigation and intentionally obstructing investigation and legal proceedings -- only repeatedly, demonstrably, and actually documented. He also spewed classified information at least once this election on friggin' video.

Trump didn't even remotely get hit with the same accusations just repeated over and over. There was focus, yes, but there was also a cavalcade of not just accusations but straight up, "Yes we have papers and records" examples of things he had done in the past that were everything from merely inappropriate for a presidential candidate to outright illegal. Dozens. The man is the first president in my lifetime to be coming into office with straight up publicly available unarguable evidence that he's broken the law, repeatedly and fragrantly.

And clinton? Clinton had two, unless you roll bill's into her's. Two scandals. That were focused on over the course of this election. The investigation emails and the wikileaks leaks. That were investigated, and no evidence of criminal action found. Fuck, little to no evidence of even abnormal action found. But no one cares. The guy with the streak of lawsuits longer than my hair and dozens more under prosecution at this very moment, is considered less of a criminal than the person that has been repeatedly exonerated of meaningful wrongdoing. And the latter's presumed, repeatedly found lacking, malfeasance has consistently been called the bigger issue. Rah rah american media, you got what you bloody asked for.

Aye.

... though that said, it's not like a lot of clinton's supporters don't also support gun ownership. Support for that is broad and bipartisan. Difference is in how the ownership is framed, what regulation is acceptable, etc., not the right itself.

Eh, think it'll come back if the mod log hits are anything to go by. For all it's been fairly intense, outside a couple of things (mostly those two, tbh) it's been fairly chill between posters.

Not in countries out side of USA, especially from comments of EU politicians.

Oh, probably. Was talking US media. Other countries basically hate trump, heh. Foreign opinion of the guy is pretty terrible, particularly in relation to clinton. Even johnson, hilariously enough.

Well, there's not much we can do now about him winning. Guess we just get to see what sort of future the country's wrought upon itself.

More or less. Fun thing, though. Clinton's about 200k ahead in the popular vote right now. Let us hope this goes better than the last time we had someone lose the popular vote and win the EC.

Well, he has a fair measure of the power, yes. He's also a person whose history is laced with decades of fraud and corruption, and who habitually lies about pretty much everything, including his positions and intended actions. It's conceptually possible he'll fight corruption! He could throw out just about every iota of character or behavior he's shown the public in his lifetime. Maybe decide that now's actually the time to stop making his way as a con man, to cobble together a moral code that excludes more than just murder. It'd be nice. A lot of people would feel a lot better, be less worried about a lot of stuff. Everything we know about the man points otherwise, and hard. But it's possible. It'd be nice.

Cheers, RK. Stay safe.

Since apparently what happened is that, when all of the many "first world" countries transitioned from manufacturing economies to service economies, they didn't actually bring those former manufacturing workers into the service economy. They just let them suffer and be miserable for several decades and didn't expect much of it.

Part of the continued amazing bullshit about all this is that people continue to believe this. In spite of decades of democrat attempts to bring relief and better options to those workers, even in the face of them repeatedly spurning said attempts and an incessant republican campaign to sabotage them. You literally have a party that has been trying for as long as I've been alive to make sure these folks have a better life and better options, but apparently none of that ever happened. There was no education initiatives, no attempts at improving housing conditions and transport so they could move to an area with better possibilities or at least make it easier for something to come to them, no cornerstone of the platform dedicated to trying to make sure these folks were healthier and happier than the vagrancies of their birth and location left them. No attempts to improve the infrastructure what hopes those folks had hinged on pretty strongly. None of the thousand and one other things the left wing of our government has been doing and trying to do for years upon years. None of that happened. It's been party policy and constantly attempted implementation on pretty much all goddamn levels for longer than most of us have been alive, but somehow these suffering workers have been ignored.

I mean, hell, I understand why some people continue to say that. What they didn't do was bring the exact same jobs back in even greater numbers, mostly due to that whole "completely fucking impossible" thing. But somehow people keep coming to the conclusion they didn't try anything else. That some huge chunk of the dem related headlines that weren't the latest line of vacuous bullshit for all my life haven't been about democrat initiatives to help and help uplift the downtrodden and down on their luck, to bring life to areas rotting out as the country's economy irreversibly changed or at least help what life was there move. I've literally spent chunks of my life either volunteering or helping folks doing the work of getting this shit implemented on a local level, but apparently I was suffering under a massive bloody hallucination for years of my life. Apparently the literal weeks upon weeks of raw hours my mother spent writing grants, implementing and managing what the funding from them allowed for, trying to bring what succor to this hellhole of a state she can didn't happen. Apparently all the people she's worked with, and the ones they've worked with, who have been constantly undercut by republican politics and policies, and for whom D support was about the only chance they had to keep doing what they were doing, never existed. The people both myself and all those people have talked to from one end of the country to the other doing the same sodding thing? Fever dreams.

Somehow. Kinda' wish I had known a couple decades ago so I didn't waste time and effort trying be a decent human being.

Dunno how much of a difference it would make, though. The places she's been gaining population in the tail of this are mostly places the EC was already called for her, so there's not really chance of gain on that front. Odds are looking good at the mo' she takes the popular vote, but that just means we get to have another election where the winner of the popular vote doesn't take the presidency. Hopefully it won't turn out as poorly as the last time.