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Messages - Loam

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526
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
« on: December 26, 2013, 08:03:51 pm »
This thread is like llama wool on an evil glacier; just won't stay dead...

Something struck me about Dwarvish: it has the largest assortment of marked vowel sounds out of all the languages, with twenty-five total vowel sounds (compared to nineteen consonants, I think). This suggested to me that Dwarves are very attuned to vowel sounds, making small and certain distinctions and relationships between them. Following this thinking, I created a chart:

(No, it isn't a pentacle)

It shows the relationships between all the vowels and their subtypes. I is considered the "highest" vowel (i.e. in the mouth, cf. IPA); Å is the lowest; the rest are in between, with E and A being "in front" and O and U being "in back."

Circumflex marks a "long" vowel, considered an extension of the "standard" vowel.

Diareses mark "half-vowels," considered weaker or in-between versions standard vowels. They have distinct sounds:
    Ï = yɪ
    Ë = ø
    Ä = æ (the a in "bat")
    Ö = wɔ
(Note that this introduces y and w sounds into Dwarvish, which were previously absent)

Acutes and Graves mark "lifts" and "drops," respectively (or rises and falls, I haven't quite decided on terminology). They represent middle stages of a vowel, considered to be "lifting" or "dropping" towards a half-vowel. As before, for English speakers they'd sound exactly like the standard vowel.

Å still sounds like long O; it's not technically a half-vowel (it's called the "deep vowel" or the "deep A") but it's treated pretty much the same.


Continuing in the "Dwarves notice vowel sounds a lot better than we do" reasoning, I though that maybe using ablauts for alterations in meaning would be a good idea. For example, the plural of English "man" is "men"; the vowel shift expresses plurality. Same for goose-->geese (and maybe mouse-->mice?).
I've come up with a sample system for verbs using this approach. The shifts follow the relationships between the vowels, as outlined in the Vîr.
Spoiler: Verbs! (click to show/hide)

527
General Discussion / Re: What is the origin of your username?
« on: December 24, 2013, 02:40:14 pm »
My oldest sister was deciding to be nice a few years back and had found a LOTR elven translator, so decided to make a name.
A quick glance at an English-Quenya (High Elvish) Wordlist says that "Leaf Lord" should be "Lasseheru." It doesn't say what "Asea" means (it may very well be another word for leaf).

Mine is my pen name, which I use when writing something that isn't meant to be taken seriously. It was just the first word that came into my head when I was thinking of one.

528
Gathre Kisethetal:
Spoiler: Somewhat NSFW? (click to show/hide)
It's supposed to be just a rough draft, but I don't know if I'll actually do another draft.

I took some hints from the name: "gathre" means lightning (hence the lightning) and "firstsinge" suggested fire (which, you might see, there is a little flame/lotus between her hands). Obviously the aesthetic is taken from Hindu art, so I'll feel very embarrassed if Gathre turns out to be from a human civ more closely resembling Scandinavia or something...

She dances atop the Cademoku (Blood Moon), swinging the twin blades Urathil (Death Sword, the bloody one) and Apukushav (Conqueror Blade, being struck by lightning) above armies in battle: Urathil brings defeat, Apukushav brings victory. In her hands is the Testri Monusmok (Flower of Holy Fire), whose divine rays inspire valiant deeds in warriors and great songs of battle in poets. The "chaos" aspect isn't well symbolized, but I treated it as a "fickle Fortune" kind of chaos: Gathre doesn't choose who wins and loses the battle, she just swings the swords randomly.

529
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
« on: December 01, 2013, 09:06:55 pm »
The idea of letting the culture of the Dwarfs shape the language is a good idea.

It is an excellent, and indeed the only acceptable idea, except for one thing: there really is no Dwarven culture. Due to the openness of the game everyone plays it whatever way they want, and so the dwarven culture varies from player to player, or even from game to game. Add to this that histories are procedurally generated (and history plays a very big role in culture) and it simply becomes implausible to discover a single "Dwarven culture."
Several people here have said that Dwarvish should be a short, curt language made for efficiency. Personally, my dwarves would eschew such a language, preferring poetry and song and embellished tales of great and glorious deeds to a tongue that was only made for the transfer of information. I'm not saying that's a bad language to create, but it could never be universally acceptable to everyone's idea of the essential Dwarven soul. Some people's Dwarves are hive creatures, operating only for the good of the swarm - that's fine, and they should have a language that can efficiently transmit important information and nothing else; such a language would make excellent use of the passive voice. Some people's Dwarves are individualistic, even glory-seeking like old Anglo-Saxon heroes, and their skalds craft beauteous songs filled with metaphors and kennings and all sorts of completely "unnecessary" figurative devices - this is also fine, but they need a language capable of such poetry, and preferably one that used the active voice to emphasize the heroes, not the deeds.

In short, we can't create a language with a single idea of "Dwarven culture" in mind; we must make a language malleable enough to be used in all kinds of ways - efficient, poetic, and everything in between - so that it can be easily adjusted to anyone's play style and personal opinion of the dwarves.

530
General Discussion / Re: Bad Poetry, Oh Noetry!
« on: December 01, 2013, 03:53:33 pm »
Just use the lyrics to a Captain Beefheart song.

531
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: The Greatest Glory!!! (Spoilers)
« on: December 01, 2013, 10:50:50 am »
I spent several hours once looking for a demon fortress. I finally found one, got inside, drew the sword and entered Hell. Now, this was the first time I had ever been to Hell, even in Fortress Mode, so I didn't really know what to expect. I found myself in a small cave with no discernible way out, and no demons inside to battle. Thinking, in my ignorance, that this might be some sort of "antechamber," I went over to a nearby glowing pit (which I didn't know was a bottomless chasm) and cast myself in, hoping to fall through the clouds into Hell proper.
It was one of those events so stupidly devastating that you just can't be angry about it.

532
Olon Anvilstone the Depression of Glorifying. I have to imagine he's conflicted about all the praise he gets for taking so many lives.

Also, Ume Snugglepears the Ambiguous Heart of Silence, the soft-spoken, somewhat questionable slayer of goblins (he is a vampire, after all).

533
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
« on: November 22, 2013, 03:41:16 pm »
Should that be appended to the different tense forms? Or could they be combined somehow?

In Latin, the tense endings and pronominal endings are combined. So the present 3rd person ending "-t" (amat = ama- + -t "he loves") in the imperfect becomes "-bat" (amabat = ama- + -bat, "he was loving"). It also does that for voice (amat "he loves" --> amatur "he is loved").
Pro: It's very concise and keeps words from getting stacked with endings (appropinquovissimus notwithstanding)
Con: LOTS of forms. A first conjugation verb in Latin has 108 endings in the indicative mood alone. Granted, they're very similar to each other and follow a logical pattern (usually - I'm looking at you, 3rd conjugation i-stems) but it's still a lot to keep track of.

As for appending them, Tolkien's Quenya (High Elvish) does that. I believe the word "melintye" means "I love you" (meli- "love"; -n "I [subject pronominal]"; -tye "you [object pronominal]"); the pronominals remain the same even when the tense changes (mellentye "I loved you").
Pro: Fewer forms, and the ability to make whole sentences out of one word.
Con: Vowels make a language smooth. Quenya has lots of vowels (most if not all of the words end in vowels) so smoothness isn;t a problem. Dwarvish (as I said earlier) has no words that end in vowels, and probably no endings that end in vowels either; therefore, all endings would at least be [vowel + consonant]. Too many consonants could lead to a very staccato and nasty sounding language (which seems more suited for Goblins than anyone else).

534
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:08:04 pm »
or just really long.
This is pretty much a given when dealing with inflected languages: Latin, for instance, comes up with monstrosities like "appropinquovissimus," which I think means "we might have had been approached," and I understand German has some long word mash-ups. But in reality they aren't that bad, they just look that way to the untrained eye.

If I remember correctly we have 6 vowels (a, e, i, o, u, y). What about adding one letter to the end of the verb. Then if it was "I talk" it would be "masosa", while "We talk" would be "masose".
"Y" technically doesn't appear in the canonical lexicon, so there's really only 5 vowels, although you could include longs or umlauts. But actually Dwarvish words never end in vowels, so I doubt their endings would either. You'd at least have to say "masosam" and "masosen" or something like that.

535
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: The Mystery of the Missing Ear
« on: November 09, 2013, 10:33:23 pm »
Probably a vampire: I had one show up like this (only missing her entire left arm). Vampires will often duel during worldgen, so I imagine that's where the missing parts are from. Not sure why everything else is supposedly wounded, but I imagine it has to do with being a vampire as well.

536
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
« on: November 08, 2013, 07:33:28 pm »
I've put the font on DFFD if anyone's interested. It's not exactly set in stone (ha ha) by any means, especially the numerals (which right now are just placeholders), so commentary is appreciated. Also for some reason it's really small, so you might need to use 18-pt just to make it legible.

Maybe one day I'll get back to work on the actual language...

537
DF General Discussion / Re: Does Slavery do anything?
« on: November 08, 2013, 07:20:57 pm »
I haven't seen any mention of slavery in either fortress or adventure mode
Very rarely in Adventure Mode I've found slaves in human fortresses, usually goblins. Other than that I don't think it does much.

538
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
« on: November 04, 2013, 08:22:10 pm »
the "ow" sound is already taken by ä, so I needed another sound for ö. The accents are already incorporated into the font.

539
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
« on: November 03, 2013, 11:22:40 pm »
A little off-topic, but I decided on sounds for the accented characters, mostly based on real-world usage:

å: a long o sound; såkzul [soak-zul]

Circumflex (^): indicates a long vowel;
     unâl [u-nahl]
     agêk [a-gayk]
     ogîk [o-geek]
     kôn [koan]
     ûbom [oo-bom]

Acutes and Graves would indicate pitches, which would be basically indistinguishable for us non-Dwarvish speakers.

Umlauts (two dots) represent vowel sound shifts. Because Dwarvish has no diphthongs, I decided to use some of the more common diphthong sounds in most of the shifts:
     ä becomes au (ow)
        umäm [um-owm]
     ë becomes ø (basically, the sound e makes before an r, e.g. "kern" [kørn]; sounds kind of like "uh")
        asën [a-søn / a-suhn]
     ï becomes ai (long i sound in English, e.g. pie)
        sïsal [sai-sal]
    ö becomes oi (boy)
        tömud [toy-mud]

540
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
« on: October 30, 2013, 10:21:20 pm »
It seems strange to have the verb come before the subject, without being otherwise marked for agency. I don't know of any languages that do that, and it might be difficult to understand; we don't know who the agent is until after we know the action, which could be confusing. Some kind of pronominal ending or sound shift might make it easier to understand.

Other than that it looks good, aside from maybe being too similar to English.

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