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Messages - Shurhaian

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166
There have been times when I wished I could lay down a 2D style "aqueduct". Doing so by hand is often an annoying prospect - at the very least, you need to have the "floor" completed before the walls can even be ordered at all.

Construction of large works in general is fraught with trouble, not least in the form of dwarves walling themselves out of places.

So here's a few possibilities:




In summary:

  • Offer alternate means of laying out a construction, to make the common buildings easier to produce. Multiple shapes are good, as are hollow shapes(for walls/fortifications) or toggleable walls/fortifications around a designated floor
  • Allow the player to designate an access point, a place for the workers to stand. It must be adjacent to the work site; it is treated as having a construction on it until such time as the work is done, then released. The access point must have access to materials, but it is up to the player to prevent dwarves from walling themselves in with the finished construction(sealing them on the "wrong" side may be exactly what some players want).
  • The entire work site counts as a restricted traffic zone until the building is done. This should keep anyone but the miners(see below) from standing on the site and causing problems later.
  • Allow constructions to auto-dig stone that they overlap. Suspend the task, rather than cancelling, in case of digging problems. "Digging problems" includes an inability to reach the dig site at all(because it's on the other side of a chasm, say), as well as newly revealed damp or warm stone. Access problems will only suspend the job if all other mining is done.
  • Spawn separate hauling tasks to bring materials to the site, with their number perhaps constrained by a tuneable value. Materials get brought to the access point. There should optimally be an indicator for how much material has been brought, both in general and for specific materials.
  • Optionally, allow construction tasks to use the nearest material of a given type rather than a specific unit of it. This may allow for overbooking, but it should not be possible to assign more material than you have at that time without knowing it; other matters consuming them will still have to be anticipated by the player. Suspend the task if it runs short of material.
  • Spawn a building-design job on any building above a certain size or complexity - or just on all constructions. If it's not on everything, it should have an obvious indicator when laying out the construction that it will require an architect. The architect will stand on the access point. The architect will attempt to clear the site of debris. Inability to do so that is not "someone is standing there" will suspend the job.
  • Optionally, handle the mining, hauling, and design tasks in parallel. They can be independently suspended. All three must be completed(or unnecessary, for the digging and design, at which point the automatically count as "completed") for construction to proceed to the final step. Auto-suspension for peaceful causes does not affect the other tasks; auto-suspension due to threat mighght.
  • Once all preceding steps are done, spawn the main construction job. This might take just as long as constructing each individual tile under the current system(though the worker stays on the access point and will not need to leave and grab new materials), and should have a progress indicator more specific than "started/in progress/nearly done". As with the architect, the builder will try to clear the site if something has cluttered it; unlike the architect, the builder will be forced to suspend the job if a creature stands on the site for any significant length of time. The restricted traffic should keep dwarves from doing so; animals, merchants, and hostiles may be less cooperative.
  • When the building is done, the construction behaves in every way as it does now. Free up the access point. Restore traffic restrictions to the user-defined values. Constructions are load-bearing, and individual tiles can be knocked down by designation just as now. Ideally, the system will try to keep like materials together, but getting a specific look is best done by making the pieces individually. Bridges and roads can be built with this method, but work just as now once finished(since these structures are not load-bearing, allowing them to use less material makes sense).

167
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Post your dissatisfaction here
« on: April 22, 2010, 05:16:02 am »
Okay, people, seriously.

I don't mean to say that Toady doesn't deserve massive props for doing what he has.

But every time I see people say "stop complaining, it's free", I die a little inside. Vester has it right. It's free at least in part because Toady wants to know what works and what does not. We are, indeed, a vast community of testers. That the game is enjoyable to many in its current state speaks volumes for Toady's work, no doubts there; but that the game is given to us for free does not mean we must ignore its faults.

Some of these are bugs. The bug tracker is the place for those.

Some of these are intended but perhaps misguided. The suggestions forum is the place to put forward possible changes.

But in discussions here, Toady can get a better idea of how exasperating the community finds particular issues. And maybe even some things that people can't articulate enough to identify as issues on their own might get ferreted out through the discussion. Even if Toady doesn't read every single thread himself, people can bounce notions back and forth, get a feel for what bugs them collectively, and then maybe some overarching issue could be identified.

It also allows for discussion of misfeatures, whereas on the bug tracker these would likely get tagged "working as intended" and closed, without much actual impression of just how annoying that intended feature may be in its current state.

If the OP had been rude about it, that would be another matter. As it is, the only thing I'd note is that there is at least one thread devoted to collected complaints about the new version, and there are probably others that are less familiar to me.

So, really. Please don't get in the face of everyone who has something negative to say.



Speaking for myself, my biggest gripe in terms of bugs is the haphazard manner in which the military responds to commands - including the inability to tell them to stop chasing something without deactivating them entirely. Among the more severe but less universal bugs(barring the acid rain bug which should be bandage-fixed in 31.04 anyway) is the nobles screen - currently broken if the leader dies, and mayors don't work right.

I have yet to even try to deal with forgotten beasts, though I should probably outfit my military and do so; I always lag behind in arming them.

My biggest frustration in the design is probably that the caverns are a little too expansive. That there is no single vertical line from the surface to the depths that doesn't clip something(or almost none, anyway) is good in that you don't miss things, but it's awfully crowded down there. I would rather like to see some more limited caverns - perhaps the banks of an underground river. Some room to build my fortress without constantly needing to rewall. I don't want there to be nothing there; it's just that as it is, it might have gone a touch too far the other way.

Generating worlds takes a long time on my poor out-of-date machine, so tinkering with worldgen parameters is something that does not come readily to me. Some slightly-more-sensible defaults would be welcome.

168
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: I must have wood logs!
« on: April 22, 2010, 04:53:18 am »
A wooden toy made of 61 logs....

Whip that thing out when the elves show up, and they'll all pass out from shock and horror.

It's not just any toy, it's a toy axe. You know, the very instrument used to desecrate their precious forests, made from the wood of 61 trees, with massive wastage, to give to some lucky princeling to play with.

This is the sort of thing that you can see great wars of elf vs dwarf being started over.

169
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: lye question
« on: April 21, 2010, 10:29:22 am »
That can work just fine(so long as you've turned on lye under misc. liquid), but if you initially made the stockpile without supporting food, it will have max barrels of 0, and that needs to be changed.

170
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Dwarves refuse to work Wood Furnace.
« on: April 21, 2010, 10:25:55 am »
And kilns. Furnace Operating also covers kilns.

But the name "Wood Furnace" does confuse matters, that's for sure.

171
EDIT: blood in the water source does not seem to do anything currently. in previous versions decaying bodies in the water source did not do anything bad either, and even with all the new diseases im pretty sure this still holds true.

Actually this is not quite correct; I've had dwarves "cancel{s} Drink:Water source contaminated" or something very similar.

But it might be that wells still have their magical cleaning effects.

172
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Prep for surgery! stat!
« on: April 21, 2010, 10:00:33 am »
That error means he's not staying in bed, which is one of the more frustrating things about the healthcare system; they get up and move around before they're supposed to...

173
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Make Stone Short Sword..?
« on: April 21, 2010, 12:52:18 am »
Making stone swords with stone other than obsidian is not a bug, IIRC; more rock than obsidian is now "sharp".

That the process turns out wooden swords is a known bug; what's not known is if the resulting swords actually perform as wooden, or if they're inheriting the name from the wood that makes the handle rather than the stone the blade is made of.

174
DF Modding / Re: Non-Alchoholic Dwarves + No mandates?
« on: April 21, 2010, 12:37:35 am »
Basically, yes.

... Of course, WHY you would want to do this is beyond me, but you can.

As for the mandates: Get a second mayor elected and you'll have a good reason.

(Until such time as the nobles screen is fixed, and mayors no longer cling to their status when replaced, un-mandating the mayor may actually be a sensible thing to do.)

175
DF Modding / Re: Dwarf Therapist (LATEST 0.5.0 4/10/10 see first post)
« on: April 21, 2010, 12:28:14 am »
I understand that documentation isn't going to help for people who don't read it, but in the case of people who DO go so far as to scan the most recent page or two of thread posts, copy-and-pasting into the first post would be a great help.

After all, this thread is almost 70 pages long. Reading through it in detail would take an undue length of time; skimming it is prone to missing the information one wants.

Regarding automatic updates - I'd honestly worry about any effort to do so, thinking it might cause hangs if it tries to read at a bad time, but I've never got my programming skills up to interprocess communication, so I can't be sure. Updating skills would seem to be largely unnecessary(when I'm managing skills and labors, either DF is paused or I'm just not that worried that my skill displays will be a few seconds out of date); I'm not sure if there could be a separate realtime view for just the jobs, and/or if it'd be easier to update just that column in realtime.

176
A major problem is that, unfortunately, marksdwarves are so buggy as to be nigh useless. A few people have reported sometimes seeing them shoot, but it seems to be the vast minority.

As of yet, there doesn't seem to be a known reliable method of getting it to work.

177
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: [DF2010] Magma Lake?
« on: April 19, 2010, 09:27:06 am »
I never said water and magma wouldn't leak through diagonals. I thought there was an extra caution involving pumps, but according to this thread, Shoku has hit it on the nose: pumps push fluid up to their level, NOT the one below like standing water pressure does.

(Though the diagram in RNG's post is slightly wrong. Neither pumps nor standing pressure will make any fluid go on a diagonal through z-levels. The tile at the "inside" end of the bottom of the U-trap should be dug out as well. And with pumping, unlike water pressure, the fluid will happily overflow.)

178
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: [DF2010] Magma Lake?
« on: April 19, 2010, 03:35:39 am »
The difference as I understood it was that "pump pressure" goes through diagonals, whereas "standing pressure" does not. That is, if you're pumping down a shaft, through a diagonal, and into a reservoir, it will happily overflow despite there being a diagonal in the way. Standing pressure(for water; doesn't apply to magma at all) doesn't do that.

Certainly, you can flood your fortress using pumped magma in ways that standing magma won't - but it's not 100% identical to how standing water does; I just can't recall the exact details right now.

179
DF Modding / Re: Dwarf Therapist (LATEST 0.5.0 4/10/10 see first post)
« on: April 19, 2010, 12:43:13 am »
Yobgod: Dick back in the thread somewhat. The problem with DT under Wine seems to be more of an Xorg issue - I know that forcing Xorg to use cutting-edge drivers instead of Ubuntu's standard repository cleared the issue up for me when I was running under Jaunty.

180
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: [DF2010] Magma Lake?
« on: April 19, 2010, 12:40:09 am »
Note that pumping a fluid isn't quite the same as "fluid pressure". The differences are subtle, but I think a significant one is that pumps will push fluid past a diagonal, unlike pressure. Be wary. I'm not 100% sure on that point, but they might do.

Once the pump is turned off, you're fine.

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