Bay 12 Games Forum

One major question, one relatively minor.

The major one(so named because I couldn't find an answer for it on the Wiki or by searching here): In entity files, ARMOR(, HELM, etc...) tokens have an optional RARITY attribute. What are the possible values of this attribute? Haven't been able to find a listing of it. And what does that rarity do - does it affect anything beyond the proportions in which the items are generated on new units?

Secondly: I'm trying to put in a collection of small gear for a smaller-than-normal race to use, but I only have a few to go in each. Do I have to make separate files for ITEM_WEAPONs vs ITEM_AMMO etc, or will it work if I put them all in one file, since they all start with OBJECT:ITEM anyway?

Quote from: Shurhaian on November 26, 2009, 06:19:07 pm

The real issue: Your "problem" is not something universally seen as such, and the "fix" would make things more awkward for anyone who wants to play with more than one mod active.

Gee, it's almost like I didn't say this:

Quote from: LegoLord on November 25, 2009, 11:07:03 pm

You know, it's not like pre-packaging a mod and having the files in a stand-alone download are mutually exclusive options.  No need for the hostility.

As touched on in the post prior to mine - the issue was not solely in the suggestion, but in the presumptive attitude that went along with it. Yours is a valid notion; however, if a modder only wants to upload one file, I'd rather it be just the new raws.

Belatedly weighing in - I haven't played with alternate civs yet, but bumping up the beastmen slightly and going with them is an intriguing concept. Rats would fit with the underground much as dwarves do(at least going by the fact that they're found in subterranean biomes), so that's definitely a plus.

Now all I need to do is start playing with graphics...

(Edit) I think I'm attached enough to this notion that I just might try knocking together a civ for them. *deepbreath* Combine that with trying to get graphics to work... I don't know how much luck I'll have using e.g. DFG as a base; I don't think my computer likes the 40d## series very much(substantially slower on world gen, site finder, etc).

But I'll see what I can do!

Quote from: Shurhaian on November 27, 2009, 03:26:33 am

Compare it to plants being harvested. They can be dug up, and if no stockpile space is free they can be left on the field. Yes, they will eventually rot. No, it doesn't happen instantly.

What happens if a plant is gathered via herbalism and there's no stockpile space? Doesn't it get left on the ground in exactly the same way?

That's exactly my point. There's nothing inherent in the task that says the gathered plant must be brought somewhere - it's not like looming silk.

I can sort of see some justification for the woodcutting/mining discrepancy, since at the end of each task for those you don't end up with the job item in your hands, whereas with herbalism you're pulling up plants and so you do end up with the item in your hands.

Really, you'll notice it's a continuum: miners will hardly ever haul a rock after mining out a square, and this is because you're usually more interested in creating space than creating stone.

I see it happen all the time, actually; I have to shut off stone hauling on my miners or they're forever getting distracted(actually, I usually have to shut off ALL hauling, or they'll wander off mid-dig anyway, but that's another matter). The usual issue is that most people don't have stone stockpiles - at least not for the common stone that miners are most likely digging. But metal and gems? Those I see them stop and grab constantly unless it's turned off.

I see the continuum you're getting at, but in this case I would nevertheless like to see a bit more control in the player's hands, yes.

The issue with masons is that they don't do a pathfinding search to find the nearest rock; they go for the closest rock, geographically, in all three axes, and have an algorithm within that for when several are equidistant. I don't know if that'll change until pathfinding gets an overhaul... having the game lurch to a halt every time a worker goes material-hunting could get old in a hurry. (Maybe if this gets cached a little more aggressively? I don't know; I'm not a programmer.)

I do think that this would be partly alleviated by different mining tasks - one to {d}ig, which concentrates on speed pretty much as it runs now, but is always unlikely to yield stone, and one to {q}uarry, which is always pretty slow, but increases likelihood of spitting out a rock much as digging does now. Each of them would have the "offhand" portion of the task SLIGHTLY increased by skill, but quarrying would still slow for a legendary miner, and digging would still be far more likely to not yield a rock. Combine it with some sensible auto-orders(like being able to auto-quarry any valuable stone, probably toggled for each in the Stones screen; digging through marble could get tedious otherwise, but you also don't want your miners to automatically plow through that diamond cluster; soil is always {d}ug through) would make mining much more sensible.

That said, I do agree that some looser tolerance on full square vs not would be welcome. If, for instance, dwarves could install furniture on a cluttered tile, so long as that furniture did not affect pathing in any way, it'd be very nice indeed. This would also be nice for, say, installing the furniture in a dining room - if I don't take the time to dump it first, tasks may get interrupted by rock being shifted around at unexpected moments, and if I don't wait until the dumping is done, any given rock might have a dump task and be otherwise immobile when someone wants to put a chair in its place, ALSO suspending the task.

One problem with this is that turtles and small fish, caught by your fisherdwarves, are technically also vermin.

Although true, I don't think that's the problem. Turtles and fish, when caught by the "Fish" labor, are dead and can only be eaten after going through the fishery.

A major problem, however, is live vermin. The ones running around on their own, it seems dwarves will only chase when starving. But any that have been trapped, dwarves apparently adore; they will run across the fortress, away from the dining room and the food stores with lots and lots of food that's all over their pref strings, to grab that fresh-caught fire snake and take it back to the dining room to munch on. This is singularly nasty in the case of vermin that have a further economic use - extracts and, especially, milking - but can be a nuisance with pretty much anything.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the general consensus that this can't be altered on our end; we'll have to wait for Toady to do something about it.

I like being able to have my resource-gathering dwarves keep at it undistracted.

I can do this for miners; set them not to haul stone, and other dwarves can bring metal ores to stockpiles as they're dug out.

I can do this for wood cutters; turn their wood hauling off, and they'll go from tree to tree, leaving other dwarves to run out and grab the felled timber. (Obviously you only want this to happen in a relatively safe area. If armed civilians ever are granted enough bravery to respond with lethal force to something chasing them, there'll be a clear advantage to only letting your woodcutter haul the timber; it needs a lot of micromanagement now. But the point is for safe areas.)

I cannot, however, do this for herbalists. Even with all hauling turned off, herbalists will, on successfully harvesting a shrub, take it to the relevant stockpile if there's room in one.

When I have some idle dwarves, this is not an ideal way to do it; I'd rather have it be tied to some hauling task which can then be disabled. Food hauling, say; or split off "plant hauling" on its own.