Bay 12 Games Forum

Lets say it simply. There is no real proof that russia is sending anything in ukraine (no, wiki links are not proofs, they are just repost of medias, that we all know are full of propaganda). The pictures showing trucks and few tanks, that is ukraine using also, moving in east are also not real prof. The reason is because a lot of weapons and armor pro russian got from ukraine. Some are even recorded on videos on beginning of the conflict, when uk send it soldiers to east and some joind/gave weapons to rebels, or other videos that show left weapons from fleeing uk.

But that also doesnt really mean that russia is not helping in arming rebels, because I am pretty sure they are doing it.

This video is probably that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwSgMF8Erh8

Weapons and armor that was send from russia (again no real proof, but logic) and now pro russian are using them. Are there russian militery in them? Probably not, becuse there is no reason for it, as you have other people that can use it and control it and that are rebels/locals.

Anyway back to some videos

Pro russian fucking around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2507tX_AOQ

Pro russian hit and run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OAkM5gE374

Pro russian doing the same thing uk are, hitting a city  under uk control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii-NAdheFAs

Ukraine BMP got destroyed on video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqXiFZj2mTM

Seriously Knit Tie, you used to be the reasonable one, now I feel like your account has been hacked by miljan.

Thats not nice to imply that other people are not reasonable, while i guess you are.

Not a fan of red/white zed screen, hope it can be turned off

Well, the US doesn't have troops in Syria, Russia got troops in Ukraine.

Also, the US never trained the Syrian rebels, where did you get that silly notion of yours? RT?

Where does russia have troops in ukraine (not counting crimea)?

About US
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/foreign-affairs-defense/syria-at-war/syrian-rebels-describe-u-s-backed-training-in-qatar/

If German troops shot down a plane, Berlin would have to answer for that, even if it was a mistake. The same holds for Washington, for Ankara, and for every other nation's troops. So if Russian troops shot down a plane by mistake, Moscow would still be responsible.
The separatists aren't proper Russian troops, of course, but since the separatists are exclusively supplied, equipped, and directed by Moscow - do you really think they start any major military operations without getting Putin's okay first? - there is a similar, if lesser, degree of responsibility here.
Direct control is not necessary for responsibility, and neither is a direct order.

Yes, they start without any Putin direct command, because there is no line of command in most of pro russian military. I can give you videos where you can see them fighting each other, who is in command and similar in the past.

If someone gives them weapons it doesnt mean a lot. It is a responsibility , but it is not direct, and it is 100% same as what USA did in syria and other countries, with supplying them, giving training and similar. Both are responsible indirectly. But rebels are NOT russian military, and cannot be considered that in any way or form as you tried to say it in your post.

Also your comment on that a country will need to answer for shooting down a plane and that it holds true for every country is very naive that you think like that. It matters a lot who shoot down a plane, because depending from country , consequences will be different as you saw in the past.

Does someone know how serious is the last claim that Russia invaded ukraine?

Not that serious (it was several times said that russia invaded ukraine in the past also, so its nothing new).  If they did anything it would be sending weapons to rebels, but you will not see a full time invasion of russian military as there is no need for it..

Paris under tiger invasion
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30035666