Bay 12 Games Forum

Vector and IcyTea's claims contradict. Webadict's claim clears Vector.

Vector's claim: communed with Blu N1, communed with Jim N2.
Webadict's claim: followed Vector to Blu's grave N1, was blocked N2.
My claim: Blu's grave was disturbed N1, no graves were disturbed N2; Jim has no grave to disturb.

Whether Jim can be communed with without disturbing his nonexistent grave is in fact the linchpin here. If the answer is yes, there is no contradiction. If the answer is no, Vector is lying in a way that webadict can't clear.

But from your point of view, Vector has to be scum due to lying about their actions?

There's no lie, as long as Jim is a valid warlock target even without a grave, which is something I'm currently waiting for an answer from Meph on. Looking at the possibilities, however, Vector is only scum in two unlikely scenarios: there being two devils or Blu being an SK with strange kill flavour.

Vector/Web/Lucky/Blu.

How do you get Vector, Web and Lucky/Blu, into a team with a single converter and one converted or double-converted via revive? There's only one scum in the beginning and only one conversion shot.

I suppose it did confirm the role to the Thief, which webadict claims.

Claim

I'm a Sexton. N1, BluarianKnight's grave was disturbed by an uncertain number of players; N2 no graves were disturbed. The N1 result is why I put so much effort into noting that Luckyowl's and BluarianKnight's alignments aren't necessarily linked.

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General thoughts

If I remember correctly, it was ToonyMan who first voiced the idea of me being the devil. I'd look askance at players who accepted this without trying to push either me or him.

I'm NQT's Coven Witch buddy. We've been loosely coordinating our play since I replaced in.

Adds up:

Also if I die tonight, I'd just like to say: don't lynch Persus.

Apparently sleeping on the night preceding a weekend leaves people yearning for me.

Re: BluarianKnight as SK: no SK-flavoured kill, and nobody has claimed a successful protection. BK is team scum, if at all.

I'll bite on Luckyowl taking the devil deal and killing Toaster and then lying about both; there's no way that would be true with a town!Lucky unless there indeed are two devils, the other of whom found the convert or something, which would make this game unbelievably (as in, I don't believe it) third-party heavy.

So, let me get this straight. We're claiming that:

Dark Magus blocks Web.
Lucky uses kill on Toaster.
BK uses factional kill on NQT.

Is that right?

One possibility is that web is the DM and used the factional kill, leaving BK possibly innocent if Luckyowl's revival failed. BluarianKnight's behaviour is off, though, so I'm fine with lynching them, especially because as noted by 4mask, being wrong on this and lynching a survivor won't hurt the LYLO clock.

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Vector

- Did not deny being the Devil despite being frequently assumed to be such.

I ignored the rolefishing.

- Heavily focused on "lynchableness" D1 rather than looking for scum.

Funny you didn't ask this earlier. By "lynchable" I mean "scummy or anti-town enough that I wouldn't mind lynching them".

- Has been tunneling me all game as scum - or - cop on little evidence, straight out of RVS.

Citation needed on the tunneling part; I've pushed other players. And I still think your prior low-profile play fits the scum-or-cop archetype.

The strategy of low-hanging fruit + tunneling a hard-to-get vet is an optimal low-effort strat. for scum.

I'd like anyone reading this to go through my posts and then try to honestly say that this has been my strategy.

I disturbed the grave but didn't actually try to reach out after all, because I was worried that Blu would rezz scum.

It was less that I didn't want my power role revealed because I thought I would be a scum target, rather I didn't want to help any scumteam PoE a vig or cop by ruling me out.

This makes no sense. You disturbed a grave (took action) but didn't contact BK (didn't take action)?

That's an extremely clever idea, but not one I thought of.

So, the idea would be that someone converts me N1, I disturb Blu's grave, I'm scum for all of D2, I disturb Jim's grave, I get a kill, I use the kill, and my Dark Magus buddy who converted me did the main NK on NQT?

I was going to vote you in this post for lying about communing with Jim, but at this prompt I tried to put it into a timeline:

N1: you disturb Blu's grave, are converted. Jim visits town!LO and LO accepts.
N2: you use the DM kill, the DM blocks web (or web is DM and lies). Town!LO kills Toaster???

Jim's grave wasn't disturbed, so I don't know what you did N2 or why you lie about it, but the only worlds in which you were converted are one where web is the DM and was actually the one Jim visited (which doesn't make sense because Lucky wouldn't claim the offer), or one where Luckyowl picked up the devil's kill and used it on someone he doesn't believe is scum, as town. (Or the one web is looking at, where you could make a deal with a dead devil, but I don't think it's likely.)

If there's a rune of calamity today, webadict's the magus.

PPE: From PM to Meph, apparently devils don't leave bodies and thus don't have graves to disturb. Currently waiting on answer on whether a dead devil can even be contacted, if they don't have a grave.

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ToonyMan

I'm very convinced that Luckyowl, Webadict, and NQT are town.

Considering D2, Luckyowl being there is both surprising and unsurprising. After such a tunnel, you can probably read what he ate for breakfast today.

Now that I think about it, I need to ask Meph if a Devil can be converted. He explicity marks Jim as a "3rd party Devil" in the OP.

Why is that relevant, when the flip shows us that it didn't happen?

Here's what I'm thinking:
Webadict is probably a real Thief, he was converted by Vector on N1. He knew I was probably a Wizard because he checked me probably on N1? Then he does the factional kill on NQT.
Vector is Dark Magus and is bullshitting a case on Lucky the newb for a lynch on them today. They convert Webadict on N1. They do something else on N2 since Web is performing the kill.
Blue is res'd as a SK Devil and killed Toaster. Why wouldn't Blue just fake-confirm they blocked Webadict? It would be an easy out, doesn't matter what kind of third-party they are. It makes no sense to me...

IcyTea, Caz, and Persus: I need some insight on this. Lucky is impossible to understand, Blue's claims make no sense, TricMagic is super bad, and 4mask just cares about surviving.

This is a sensible case, probably the only one with scum!Vector, though from what I've understood, Toaster's death flavour doesn't quite match an SK. It still leaves BK as the lynch for today, though.

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webadict

I am a dirty no-good Thief. I can confirm that Vector is, indeed, a graverobber. I'd know one anywhere. They cannot be the Dark Magus.

Vector is definitely a Warlock. Vector's claim matches everything I've seen.

Web/Vector is a team I've marked as unlikely, and as there were multiple disturbances on BK N1, I think Vector being a warlock is possible. However, since I can attest Vector did not visit Jim's grave (or anyone's) N2, this would make them the convert performing some other action.

Luckyowl did not use their power to kill me, the person they suspected.

Luckyowl is a bad guy that killed Toaster.

Vote Luckyowl for elimination.

Honestly, that's a pretty Level 1 read if I say so.

This leaves the question of why Luckyowl claimed the devil visit at all.

Okay, here's the only problem with your scenario, Persus: It's either TricMagic, IcyTea31, or Caz.

So, we have to determine which of these three is the Dark Magus. It's a 33% chance to hit.

Could you restate how you've cleared everyone else? TricMagic is unlikely, Caz I agree is possible.

[he]

4maskwolf

Launch blue again and see what role they are.

If they're an SK we take a good hard look at Vector and webadict.

If they're a survivor we've still pushed back the LYLO clock one day (survivors count as wolves for the LYLO clock, a phrase I'm sure I'm not going to regret later) and we just launch Lucky sky-high.

Not a terrible plan due to the LYLO clock point, but the first point is never true.

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BluarianKnight

Quote from: BluarianKnight on March 05, 2021, 09:31:28 pm

I'm not the SK - nor converted. I said the truth, and I'm being thrown under the bus because of it.

Then who killed Toaster.
Why did you block Toaster last night?

1. No clue.
4. I killed him with a devil's bargain
[/quote]Seriously, this thing again where people say one thing and then immediately contradict themselves. How can you have no clue about Toaster's killer if you're it?

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Caz

I considered Vector/Web but it's a long shot... like how would they know Blu was rezzed as a serial killer?

The same way town are looking at that possibility: behaviour. The difference is, they'd know Blu is an SK because in that world they're the scum.

You think Vector came up with a plan on-the-fly N2 after Jim died that they're a dreamwalker and Lucky took the kill except that actually happened?

Could have made that plan backwards at the start of D3.

I think Lucky and Blu are just panicking and being bad bc they couldn't handle the stress of continuing to post in the thread all game, decided to lurk all day to avoid suspicion (probably told to, as you said) because when they're actually in the thread it's a garbage fire of contradiction.

You realize that in the world where Lucky and Blu are told to lurk, they are in fact scum?

Icytea: You want to weigh in on all of this?

See, well, this entire post.

15 minutes is too little time for an informative CFD, in my opinion.

Caz, do you have any actual, specific complaints about the various votes on the Jim wagon, or is yours just a call to be polite?