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Both hands are gripping the desk.

I, too, am interested. Maybe "Hated"? That's a bit benign and mundane, I guess.

I was thinking "Implacable Foe" or "Inveterate Hatred"  or perhaps "Implacably Hate-Filled Inveterate Foe".

They are just commoners, after all. They can't be held to our noble standards of gallant conduct. We could even appear to offer him safe passage, and a mob of commoners led by the Rat attacks him against our express orders as he tries to leave the city. But that might be evil, particularly if his wife is with him.

The library is, of course, gigantic and filled to the ceiling with scrolls and books. It will sure take you decades to search for all the required information, was it not for the numerous libertarians who have spent their entire lives memorizing the information within.

I knew that Ayn Rand was a prolific writer, but an entire library filled with her works? Amazing!

Yeah, you're right. We should try it your way, and if that doesn't work, fall back on what I've already suggested.

Both plans will be happening at the same time. There's still a mobilisation in the background while we try this little opening gambit, which can fail, or which Uriel can simply decide against based on his knowledge. We're just letting him know that we have troops for a quick strike ready.

If we do attack, we need to have a chat with Uriel and get him to tell us everything he knows about Folesden. Troop numbers, fortifications, everything.

Yeah, we don't know the possibilities until we confer with him. Just saying that we prioritise whatever opportunities for speed and internal dissent exist.

We have to plan for after Owen is defeated if we want to win. What will we do, how will we "spin" this so we aren't the dangerous rebel trying to get cronies in positions of power or something like that?

Reward a good portion of the old guard with their old positions, and have people like Uriel Lope doing the talking now. Arthur is not going to forget our role in setting this in motion, no matter who is doing the pointless babbling and strutting about during the action. That's why we defer to Uriel now.

Also, don't underestimate those rumours that we floated. They won't lose power after Owen is deposed. Rather, they become even more open and accepted after his disgrace.

My main complaints are that I don't support attacking unprovoked and that I had expected more...radical content from the first sentence, not just details.

The radical content is the speed. Speed makes much of it work, and you can't rely on any of this working after time has passed. It is not supplementary to a slow cautious approach.

Owen is not officially the Count except by his own proclamation and de facto residence in the keep. He has yet to have his fealty accepted and he is known as a potential murderer. This is not rebellion against a true lord. If anyone continues to view this as a rebellion where we are to be faulted, let him state the reasons that Owen has legitimacy. An accepted vow? The love and acclaim of the people? An untarnished reputation for justice? He's de facto Count only because he is in Curbiston with supporters.

Now, if we wait for all those things that satisfy legal requirements, there's a larger chance that Owen finds other powerful allies outside the city which is filled with dissent. He brings those inside. The guards are changed. Everything that you suppose is a supplement to the plan of moving slowly is suddenly voided by, say, Count Zander finding a political advantage in backing his old household knight and sending reinforcements from his county. After a certain critical mass of outside help, standing behind them with swords drawn, even wobbly insiders will stand firm.

That is a pretty good plan, but isn't the dude we just got the captain of the House guard, not the cities guard?

Marshal is a very big office, effectively the control of all military. He would have supervised county-wide military details, logistics, and preparedness for most of the Count's soldiers, and also coordinated with vassals. A separate official would have kept the watch schedules and the day-to-day orders of the city guard. Probably reporting to Uriel, but hierarchies can vary. All this has been switched up by now, anyway. The key here is merely that Uriel is known by the guard as one of them. After years of being vaguely somewhere important above them in the hierarchy, he has influence with them. So we should debrief him on possibilities, and then act with an eye toward speed.

If he's coming to us, either he has an exquisite sense of justice, or his office is being removed or rumours of such are floating. Without his old office, his other holdings may classify him as just a minor knight. Or he may have large holdings outside the city. Unknown.

In any case, this war becomes his now. The former marshal leading the claim is far better than us being out in front. And he keeps his office. We say something like, "I have this boy in my keeping, true, but I have been waiting for someone of rank and importance with a sense of justice to seek him out. If you come to lead his claim, I pledge the full support and co-operation of my town and its soldiers to dispose of as you will, Lord Marshal."  This is regardless whether we move fast or slow.

Thanks for your saintly patience, Mal.

I probably did instigate this by saying something blatantly true, if too colourfully worded. The long rambling discussions among the suggestors have problems with readability. Call that scenario what you will, if you don't like my particularly vulgar wording. Yet it is true. Truth is not an acceptable excuse for blurting out undiplomatic things. I should know that. However, the verbose discussions among suggestors here are a chore to sift through, and people rarely concede anything. If you don't feel like responding, that's automatically interpreted as a defeat by those who tirelessly respond, rather than as utter ennui toward the repetitive arguments. If you do engage, expect no movement among those who have staked out a position. You can make a good point against an assertion, and the next reply has the same assertion worded differently.

As a trial balloon, several times I've said "Okay, I'm changing my opinion" or "Okay, I'm incorporating other suggestions" to see if I can get reciprocity snowballing. Go ahead and verify this. I can't remember anyone else picking this spirit up.

I really think suggestions should be pointed toward Mal rather than toward other suggestors, because there really isn't anything like a give-and-take collaborative atmosphere here. People here literally--LITERALLY--have argued for pages about which side of the river the cattle should be on. And if someone is argued into a corner, they simply go silent rather than change their "vote" or acknowledge a better plan. There's no real discussion among people here, and responding directly to each other is largely pointless.

I also think direct democracy is an extremely mediocre system. It certainly led Athens astray. Mal is capable of deciding what makes his story best without people breathing down his neck by meta-gaming for voting blocs and counting and recounting votes. I keenly feel the absence of several people that used to make this thread fun--although several other people still currently here similarly have my respect, I should quickly add--and those are "votes" that are now lost, which enabled Sir Stone to do cool things in the past. Let's get beyond voting as a source of conflict and trust Mal as the writer of the story to pick a mixture of what is popular and what fits into his story.

I pledge to do what it takes to keep the story running smoothly, going forward, but I really did reach a moment where I grew tired with the mechanics of this thread. I apologize for how I expressed that.