Bay 12 Games Forum

Also, I'd like to relay my reason why I still strongly suspect Jim Groovester, to some extent.

Even with webadict clearing up Turn Order resolutions to me, and Jim Groovester still having a save toward why his Redirect didn't save Knightwing64... His Oliverz144 accusation still has not been definitively cleared...

I redirected Oliverz144 to Maximum Spin.

He said he Redirected Oliverz144 toward Maximum Spin. If that was the case, Oliverz144 would have discovered who the killer was. Instead, that didn't happen at all; which makes me lean toward Jim Groovester being deceptionatory about having Redirect at all still.. Like Oliverz144 mentioned before.. something just doesn't seem right about this at all.

Redirect is P4 and Oliverz144's unique Track/Watch combined ability was P10. Oliverz144 mentioned he used the WATCH portion his P10 ability on me, since he suspected me to be the N1 kill. A Kill, as an action within itself, is P7. With Jim Groovester's claimed Redirect, Oliverz144 SHOULD have learned who the Killer was, since Watch reveals all actions other Players do on your Target. Jim HAS to be lying..

Honestly?

I don't think I'm escaping this vote, so hit me. I've been a little too scatterbrained to commit much, and I don't have much evidence to point at Jim with.. but I think it's Jim.

C'mon! Don't give up on me. Did you see my proposal?

I just want to double confirm it with webadict:

In this Miseliminate-or-Lose, is it MANDATORY to vote for a player at this phase type? Is going for the "no option" not allowed? This was never deliberatively specified. All the notary says that if we eliminate the wrong person would bring a likely result of losing the game, and that our votes are permanent.

Also, here's my proposition, since I believe it'll take awhile before BluarianKnight becomes active once again:

---

If we go by Jim Groovester's purported defense explanation on how abilities are resolved, in terms of Turn Order, then
I propose this:

1) BluarianKnight use Roleblock (P3) on Jim Groovester

2) While that is happening, Jim Groovester do no action

3) I'll use my Steal (P10) on Jim Groovester to confirm if he actually has Redirect.. or any other potentially malicious abilities
that Jim never disclosed.

The logic is this: If BluarianKnight truly isn't Mafia, and is consistent with being truthful of having
Roleblock, and being Town, then Jim Groovester could be stopped from possibly doing a Kill action (P7) on me.
My Steal would also act as an impromptu ad-hoc "Inspection," since I'd able to deduct the truth from my Steal results.

If Jim Groovester is truly not Maifa, however, and a Kill action is successful on me, then we know BluarianKnight is the Mafia;
logic being that my Steal results would finally line up with what Jim Groovester was claiming all along the entire game,
thus BluarianKnight being finally 100% suspect in my eyes, they would have to maneuver to kill me;
along with the added fact that I specifically requested for Roleblock support on Jim Groovester (who I heavily suspect as Mafia),
but with me still ending up dead.

I don't have to use Steal to determine if BluarianKnight is telling the truth about their abilities, because I they have been
consistent in their claims of Roleblocking, along with the key detail of Knightwing64's Auto-Revive ability being Blocked; a fact
BluarianKnight admitted to outright.

Though, I do have to use Steal on Jim Groovester to finally find the truth. Every instance he's claimed to have
had used Redirect... has been very shaky so far.

Oliverz144 initially called out Jim Groovester possibly lying about Redirect; along with the
fact it's still not concrete if there is any truth to Jim's previous claim, that he used Redirect against BluarianKnight toward EuchreJack. If that was the full truth, then Knightwing64 would have either been saved altogether, or would have been Revived without his
Auto-Revive being blocked at all. Nobody else has claimed to have had Roleblock except BluarianKnight this entire game.

TricMagic really has no room in this proposition, since he has apparently used up all his 1-Use abilities.

I initially wrote up my final decision, but before I post it, I want to take your advice and ask @webadict directly. I want to be at least 85% sure before I post.

Redirection merely changes the Target being Targeted, correct? The effects of the entire turn order for the Night does take effect until everything is processed?

Wait, I have a crack-pot remaining theory (and yes, it's another Jim-related theories):

Since Knightwing64's Auto-Revive ability was trigger based, and reacted (as per the rules on Turn Order in the OP post)
on the Block, which is Priority 3; Knightwing64's Auto-Revive ability subsequently also became a P3 in order calculation.
Simultaneously as a consequence of being a Block by default, BluarianKnight's Block had nullified Knightwing64's Auto-Revive..

However, this nullification could have been removed, if Jim Groovester truthful telling the truth about Redirecting BluarianKnight
toward EuchreJack (which he said he did on N2).

Redirection is Priority 4 (P4).

If Jim Groovester truly used Redirection as he claimed, BluarianKnight would have
Blocked EuchreJack's Kill (in a scenario of sake-of-argument belief where EuchreJack, among the
Mafia internal decision-making on N2, decided for Jack specifically to carry out the kill) on N2, instead of Blocking Knightwing64, which unintentionally caused his demise.

Knightwing64 probably would done some sort of theoretical action (which we will never know of
since he died), with his 1-Use Auto-Revive not being used up at all, or being known at all, since the Kill toward him
would've been blocked.

From what I've quickly learned, Night cycles progress based on submitted Turn Actions alone.
I was under the newbish belief that a kill HAD to happen for the Night to progress, but that was wrong.

Under the above scenario, everything would have went off on N2 without a single kill, like what has happened on previous N3. We
would have preceded into D3 with nobody killed.

It could have actually been where:

1) BluarianKnight had Blocked Knightwing64
2) EuchreJack used his Protection ability on Jim (since EuchreJack mentoined he protected Jim)
3) And Jim Groovester was the one actually chosen to do the kill, not doing any Redirection at all, as they've claimed to
have done.

I just find it very hard to believe that Mafia could have possibly known about Knightwing64's Auto-Revive and maneuvered a
kill-down where they Blocked it, then went in for a Kill.. it's just way too.. shaky..

What if my Inspection didn't work? I've looking over the wiki. What if Jim Groovester's role has somesort of Godfather-like
mechanism imbedded into it? Maybe that's why my Inspection didn't work? What if he didn't need a Redirect at all to deceive my Inspection, but just needed to do nothing and not kill me, and get a "Town" confirmation?

I say all this because no matter what, Knightwing64 WOULD have been Auto-Revived without being Blocked. Hell, even with being Blocked, someone else STILL would have needed to kill them thereafter. BluarianKnight came out and straight admitted they roleblocked Knightwing64, lamenting on the loss, considering they were Town..

Also, remember TricMagic (but its too late now since you voted), without BluarianKnight mentioning they roleblocked you on N1, you would've stopped suspecting EuchreJack the entire game. Them admitting that crucial fact put you back on the right track.

Actually, I take back my "think they might be Town," that's too miltuquetoast in this scenario. There is a very high probability Jim Groovester is Town, considering my Inspection confirmed as such. 

I have a question: do Blocks abilities Block against Kill actions?

I just wish BluarianKnight was more active in all of this.. They haven't said peep in awhile..