Bay 12 Games Forum

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I wonder if something is being lost to the fairy tale Disney-esque glorification of the whole Robin Hoood drama. Let's reframe the situation:

A thief breaks into your neighbors house. You hear this, and head next door with your gun to stop the crime in process. The thief stands down, but while you're reaching for your cellphone to call the police, the thief's girlfriend walks in and asks you to please let him go. You agree to not call the police, provided she has sex with you. She agrees, and you let them go. Afterwards, the thief beats the girl, calls her a slut, and tells her he never wants to see her again.

Question 1: Did you coerce her?

Question 2: Who's "better?" You, or the thief?

you DID coerce, and i would never do this under any circumstance.

i would be worse than the thief, i used coercion to rape a girl; the thief only attempted theft and got angry (too angry) over his girl letting herself be raped.

Rather then a fine, you could better say it is a bribe.

Spoiler: Scenario without Robin Hood characters (click to show/hide)

Bill, Bob, Joe and Jane

Bill and Bob are best of friends and serial thieves/robbers/muggers.
Joe is the Warden and the judicial authority of the region Bill and Bob operate.
Jane is Bob's girlfriend/lover, she is also 'fair', is of 'highborn' blood, and acts as a highborn.

Bill and Bob are locked down in jail for repeated acts of thievery/bank robbing/highway robbery/mugging. (We assume Bill and Bob have tried to escape and failed, multiple times.  So no, they cannot get out any other way and are destined to rot there forever.) 

Jane goes to petition/plead Warden Joe for the release of Bill and Bob.  Warden Joe says he would let Bill and Bob go if Jane has sex with him.  She agrees to it and Bill and Bob are let go, no strings attached.

Joe tells Bill and Bob why they are let go.  Bob gets pissed, abuses Jane and leaves.  Bill then steps in, saying he will support her and devote himself to her.  Bill and Jane leave off together.

your scenerio doesnt change a thing at all, whats your point?


i have a few scenarios i want to use to prove my point to most ppl who refuse see it from my point of view:

Scenario A:
The sheriff tells marion that if she wants her soulmate to go free, that she must bring him 50k USD (modern day money). She could either choose to earn this money the slow way by working as a maid (and the sheriff will keep robin barely alive at minimal expense until then) or she could sell herself to slim shady who would gladly pay 50k to have sex with her.

In this scenario i would not call it rape, and she would be ranked pretty high on morality and honesty whatever options she chose.

Scenario B:
The sheriff is adamant in his decision to keep robin locked up forever, and tells her to give up on him. Marion does not accept this and instead seduces the sheriff, pleading her attraction for men in police uniforms, convinces him that she honestly finds him sexy (without use of drugs or anything), and steals his keys after he falls asleep from having sex with her.

In this scenario it is consensual sex, she just happened to conveniently be there to steal the keys afterwards

Scenario C:
The sheriff tells marion that if she wants her soulmate to go free she must either murder the king of sherwood, steal half the royal treasury including the sacred crown that would make the sheriff the absolute ruler due to its magical powers, and murder anyone else who might stand in his way of becoming king. Or have sex with him.

This scenario is mainly different from the first because no reasonable person would murder so many, putting their entire country into turmoil for the sake of their soulmate. It still is not rape compared to the original because she still has a choice that did not involving losing her soulmate, which knocks it down from "coercion" to "guilt-tripping". The world is expendable, your soulmate is not.

Is alignment directed from the character's thoughts or actions?

you need a new gm, you guys are technically supposed to act like what your alignment would have done.

...and putting friendships on hiatus practically amounts to losing friendship. Whatever you do, if you confessed, she's going to remember that. Even if you saw her as "just a friend" now, she'd still remember that, and depending on her personality, she might not take it good if you broke up her friendship because of a botched confession. She might even feel responsible for the rift in the (friendly) relationship.

So basically, I don't agree to "our friendship is put on hiatus until I can continue seeing you as a friend".

if she takes it some other way and feels guilty then she needs to grow up and start realizing this is how it is with life. Yes, it will never be the same again, who cares? get over it

Really? Consensual sex happens, nobody is complaining about the sex, there is no actual evidence to suggest that anybody is traumatised due to the sex, but it must be rape because the woman stands to gain something?

That really is unfair on Marion. She has the right to decide for herself, and she opted to have sex.

that is how you see the situation, you can also see the situation as her silently hiding her suffer/trauma; so lets drop arguing over if shes really traumatized or not.

There are no signs of trauma but the main argument in this thread is whether it was rape or not due to the amount of coercion involved.

and what exactly did she stand to gain? she stands to lose something she cannot, the coercion is very clear.

you have every right to decide to hurt someone, a moral person chooses not to exercise that right. She let herself be raped so robin could go free. Robin could not live with that fact.

They can be engraved with sufficient use of bugs, it's how engraved metal pillars are possible.

how do you use this bug which you say?

at OP i wall off the candy veins i mine out and most of the natural cavern walls i mine out just so that the cavern maintains its natural shape.

I think we're missing something important here.

Does Marion think it was rape? Neither of the two examples, the original or Max's alteration, shows any indication of that being the case.

And I feel like that should probably have a bit of weight to it.

exactly why she is amoral.

Fuck Robin, the question was about Marion. Was her choice to have sex with the Sheriff moral in the example where Marion and Robin live happily ever after?

it was not.

if she was worth anything to robin, robin would still be very traumatized because she let herself be raped for his sake.