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Messages - Catsup

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241
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 27, 2013, 02:11:08 am »
on the topic of brain aging, that is actually not as deadly as body aging IMO cuz there are certain things you can do to slow down mental illnesses from aging, such as by keeping intellectually engaged and playing mentally challenging games that require logic.

Im also assuming some sort of tissue rejuvenation technology would have been developed by the time cloning is developed to help regrow your brain, or some sort of synthetic technology that can slowly replace the brain with synthetic tissue that is inorganic.

242
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 27, 2013, 02:02:25 am »
Quote from: Xantalos on April 27, 2013, 01:50:47 am
Hmm. In that case, I don't think I'm in an adult body yet.
you sound pretty calculating and miserly for an 11 year old O_o

243
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« on: April 26, 2013, 11:12:10 pm »
Quote from: Truean on April 26, 2013, 10:29:32 pm
I don't think they'd be able to go back to what they are currently if I took that delusion away from them. It wouldn't be taking anything they had, but rather it would be taking something they never had, which I grant you is worse....
spill the beans and do it, they'll learn from hard reality later in life anyway.

244
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Bedroom designs! Everywhere! (Post 'em here)
« on: April 26, 2013, 08:46:21 pm »
Quote from: jimjulius on April 18, 2013, 12:19:08 pm
Organic bedrooms designed around a river (currently frozen). Everyone get their standard container, cabinet and window. design is stacked for four levels (one with windows under the water). I like my forts to flow around the natural terrain rather than be symmetrical.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
wait until a titan(most titans can swim), zombie building destroyers, or sieges with aquatic building destroyers show up. Those windows will go down very fast, and your fort will be flooded in addition to being wrecked from the inside due to whatever broke in. Your military wont be able to respond due to the flooding.

245
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 08:41:49 pm »
Quote from: Xantalos on April 26, 2013, 08:40:59 pm
For no reason. You're walking down the street and some guy says 'Hey how'd you like to get cloned and destroyed and your clone is given 10 bucks abd I take all of your money?!'
he does it for free, your clone gets 10 bucks, your money is given to the clone too i think, no one will know you died, you disappear and the clone replaces you.

246
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 08:37:30 pm »
Quote from: Xantalos on April 26, 2013, 08:29:58 pm
Not dying or anything that would give me a reason to throw away my body for no reason?
yup the question is practically asking you if you would let a superior clone with all of your memories replace you. The old you, including the brain, is destroyed.

247
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 08:13:52 pm »
Quote from: Xantalos on April 26, 2013, 08:10:19 pm
Quote from: Xantalos on April 26, 2013, 07:51:27 pm
Okay, giant philosophical discussion. One question for me; am I dying or dead in this hypothetical scenario? Because if I accepted the offer as I am now I'd actually end up worse off.
youre very much alive in this scenario, thats the whole point.

248
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Gigantic Tortoises, a PSA
« on: April 26, 2013, 08:11:54 pm »
Quote from: Id Utalrisen on April 26, 2013, 07:59:31 pm
I had a similar experience with a Giant Sponge in a terrifying jungle. Every single undead would spawn, and immediately try to kill them, leading to 50+ undead in a 3x3 area trying desperately to tear little bits of fluff off him for about 10 years.

God help me if I could capture and train War Sponges, to post along the border of my map.
not a bad idea...dont forget repeating upright spikes surrounding each sponge so you can kill all the undead (the sponge wont die, and will be harmless if chained).

249
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 08:09:14 pm »
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 26, 2013, 08:05:35 pm
I should probably also define the concept of dying. Here's a definition: Dying is something that only bodies can do, it results in permanent absence of consciousness and therefore loss of any memories saved on the brain.

Consciousnesses can't "die", since they don't exist for measurable periods of time.
ok then we agree being alive means you have the "ability to become conscious". You lose that ability when you die and your brain rots. It doesnt matter if you have a clone with the same memories as you. You wont one day suddenly re-awaken in your clones' beautiful, youthful body (unless you transferred your brain into them).

250
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 08:02:08 pm »
Quote from: Eric Blank on April 26, 2013, 07:57:15 pm
One thing that was mentioned recently by my biology instructor is the fact that when a cell undergoes mitosis, and the threads which pulled chromosomes over to opposite poles of the dividing cell are separating from the chromosomes, they actually break off a part of the chromosome which remains attached to the thread. This implies that as you age, the very mechanism of tissue repair is detrimental to the daughter cells because each daughter cell probably lost part of it's information, which won't be repaired before those cells again divide.
this is just a theory though, i personally think its because of our inherent metabolism and genes for senescence, and in general just the way our bodies are designed.

i think the idea of mechanical neurons is appealing but i dont think its possible to replace your biological brain without destroying your consciousness in the process and killing you. It seems to be less of a risk if done gradually but even then there is still some risk.

251
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 07:52:47 pm »
Quote from: Frumple on April 26, 2013, 07:48:31 pm
You can definitely lose consciousness entirely without dying, though. Comas, hard enough hit to the head, etc., so forth, so on. Total sensory deprivation/full awareness loss is pretty rare, but it's possible for it to happen without killing a person (or sometimes, without them staying dead, heh.).

If losing consciousness is all it takes to be considered dead, and consciousness is just an awareness of the world (though note, that's usually not the definition for it, or at least not the whole one. Awareness of the self/differentiation from other things tends to come into play), then there's a fair number of dead people walking around right now.
yes, but he defined consciousness as dieing when you went to sleep, and then you getting a "new" consciousness when you awaken.
I agree that its possible to lose consciousness and not be considered dead, but if its not a permanent loss then it will be the same one as when you were awake before when you re-awaken.

252
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: What's going on in your fort?
« on: April 26, 2013, 07:48:13 pm »
Quote from: AlmightyOne on April 26, 2013, 12:31:30 am
Quote from: doublestrafe on April 25, 2013, 11:33:59 pm

The peasant Tosid Loloksazir Dallithegom Atul has come! A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
Same happened to me, Only difference is I got a HUMAN CHILD who got snagged in my cage traps. Kept wondering what to do with this human child, finally I used him as target practice, died too fast though.
this happens because werecreatures show up in sneak mode to try to ambush you. By the time they're exposed they may have already transformed back to their original form.

btw almightyone i would have weaponized that kid, make evil weather turn him into a husk so he transforms into a bloodthirsty killer that i release on captive goblins/trapped forgotten beasts once a month. It's practically an immortal weapon because huskifying makes it only killable by bisection or decapitation. And the transformation heals all wounds.

253
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 07:41:29 pm »
Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 26, 2013, 07:33:34 pm
Losing consciousness makes you dead? Then I suggest you don't ever sleep again, because while sleeping, you obviously don't have consciousness. Also, consciousness is not a thing that exists for a period of time. Since a consciousness is simply a collection of thoughts, any consciousness only exists at one point in time. Different thoughts, different consciousness. Different time, different thoughts. Simple as that.
we've been over this, you do not completely lose consciousness when you sleep. And consciousness is not a collection of thoughts, that is your memory. Consciousness is your awareness of the world.

Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 26, 2013, 07:33:34 pm
There is no consciousness anymore for something to not matter. In the phrase "x matters to y", y refers to a mind, not a body. Your mind is still alive, so how can it matter to that mind that it is dead?
your mind is no longer alive, your memories are alive in your clone, your original mind, including consciousness is dead and buried.


Quote from: Max White on April 26, 2013, 07:32:47 pm
Are you upset with the idea that a clone might take your place? Would you not want this to happen?

You have no reason to be upset about taking your own place if you are ok with it.
a clone is not you though, they are a separate person from yourself. I wouldnt let a superior clone of myself replace me, even if they could achieve my dreams, that i could not.

254
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 07:24:35 pm »
Quote from: Graknorke on April 26, 2013, 07:17:22 pm
Thing is that they have a memory of my conscious process. That is the legacy I leave behind, and that is the reason people even have a concept of their own personality.
it doesnt matter if you have a legacy or not, cuz your dead...

it doesnt matter if your clone is a perfect copy of you with the same thought processes and personality, because your dead...

@thread, i thought this thread was about replacing your clones' brain with your own for as long as your brain can survive so you can achieve semi-immortality.

255
General Discussion / Re: Consciousness and brain transfers
« on: April 26, 2013, 07:14:36 pm »
Quote from: Graknorke on April 26, 2013, 07:10:01 pm
Again with this thing. He is not dead until personal memories of him are gone. Those copies ARE his mind. they experience things from his perspective, bar the change in the time after the copying process.
there is your memories, your experiences in life that define who you are and how you act.

there is the brain, which store these memories and which emulates your consciousness.

and there is consciousness, which is your individual awareness of the world.

losing your memories does not make you dead, you can make some new ones and keep living in the world. Losing your consciousness makes you DEAD since even if there are clones running around with your memories, they have a separate consciousness that is their own. They are NOT you.

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