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But your consciousness is ENTIRELY because of the structure of your brain and the memories you have. That is what defines you.its what defines you, but its another person and it is not you. A copy is not the original, it doesnt matter if it is exactly the same.
splitting your consciousnesssince your going away im going to suppose this is your conclusion. Mine is that its not possible to both split your consciousness and yet keep them identical.
Two connected brains is one big brain with a new structure.doesnt work, well at least not really. The brain's function is determined by its composition and the structural connection of its neurons. Adding in more brain tissue randomly does not necessarily add additional function. Adding another structurally functional brain to an existing brain without interfering with the structural integrity of either still only makes for 2 physically connected brains that do not share a consciousness.
I never built another ship. You even agreed that I wasn't building another ship! Every step I fast forwarded through was just continual modifications and repairs to the same ship, and you even said it was the same ship after I finished. We've even tied them together for you, now!ok "fixed" non-symmetrically. The result is still 2 new functional ships with identical compositions to each other, but not to that of the original. From this point of view i say the original is destroyed.
I just don't understand what you're trying to say at all. It doesn't make any sense.
Anyways, I'm out for a couple hours, gotta go. Someone else feel free to pick up where I left off in this discussion, by slowly lengthening ropes.
They both have exactly the same number of components from the first panel S.S.Teddy. Just a couple posts ago you said every single component up there was a component of the S.S.Teddy. How can you say that one of the subships is the 'original', when they are both identical, with identical but mirrored histories of how they were created, both composed 100% of S.S.Teddy pieces...well you did fast forward so i assumed you built the other ship non-symmetrically. If there really is no absolute way to distinguish the 2, then i would say that the original SS teddy was destroyed:
I still don't know what you mean by the "first" ship and the "second" ship. Are you saying that the S.S.Teddy no longer exists at this point? That it was destroyed?if they are bounded together with rope so they can only function as 1 ship, then that is only 1 ship. Otherwise they are now 2 separate ships since they can function independently of each other.
What if they were still bound together at this point by rope, so that they still functioned as one ship?
What is this "second ship" you're talking about? Just a few seconds ago you were saying it was the same ship, but one slight repair/modification job later and suddenly it's not anymore, and 49% of what was the ship a few moments ago no longer is?a few moments ago it was 1 functional ship that looked like 2 smaller ships, but connected in such a way taht they are still only 1 ship, and can only function as 1 ship.
Note that we've gone through our entire pile of spares at this point, so we have twice the starting mass and two times as many of each components as when we started. Is it still the same ship?the second ship is no longer the same ship as the original, it is a split off individual entity, perhaps a child, that was borne off the first ship at the time of the splitting.
Because it turns out that things that "may as well be the same thing" but are actually the same thing can do something very special - they can diverge.no they cannot diverge, because their difference is that one is a tangible physical reality and the other one is not. To be able to diverge they must be able to change independently of each other, and the mind and the brain are not able to do this under any circumstance.
Again, that's a side effect of their relations, but it does not mean that they are identical. Only that they are coupled.yes, but coupled is such a way that they may as well be the same thing.
Is it still the S.S.Teddy? Is it still the same ship we've been talking about this whole time? (I expect the answer to be yes to this, but I just want to make sure as the next step is most likely to be contentious)yes, but why is the pile of stuff so small?
Yes, a human's mind and brain are incredibly tightly coupled, but being tightly coupled does not make them the same thing.they are the same thing, if you know about diseases of the brain from old age or other mental illnesses that are hereditary then you'll know physical damage to the brain causes ppl to lose their minds, their memories, and their consciousness.
I'd rather continue our consensus building exercise, to be honest. Different conclusions don't mean much if we don't know where they diverge, and misunderstandings are much harder when we understand where we share common ground. If you want, we can fast forward a couple steps, though.you should probly fast forward.
incorrect. For computers and machinery different hardware can be used to run the same software, but each brain can only ever run 1 individual person's consciousness.
The mind is the system. The brain is the hardware.
your initial claim seemed pretty diametrically opposed to this onecan you explain what you thought my original claim was?
Brains are made of matter. They're physical objects. If you destroy a physical object, it is destroyed. If you construct a copy a physical object, it's not the same object. Picture it with baseballs instead of brains if you have to.i think he worded it better than i can, i also believe this is the case
Unless you consider the mind to exist somehow independent of the things it's made of, it's not going to work. A mind is not a concept. It's a physical reality in the shape of a gooshy organ in your head.
it doesnt matter how much damage is done or how much the ship is changed from the original design, its still the same ship.
This is step 5, a newly repaired S.S.Teddy. Still the same ship?
That could be fixed by having the patient be unconscious during the process.doesnt work, they will become different as soon as both wake up and start updating their mind according to their own body.
Then could we agree that the two minds are perfectly identical?
