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Messages - Sarzael

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211
Roll To Dodge / Re: Perpublicon: Publishing the Perplexicon
« on: September 18, 2013, 09:50:34 am »
So I'm thinking of ways to do transformation spells, the sort of thing that would happen in the old game when you made a tattoo filled with various substances and then became all or partially made of those substances. They, along with "control" were pretty OP in the original game, so I'm thinking of a way to limit their usage a bit.

Now, enchanting things currently works by writing the words on whatever you want to enchant. For instance, write the word for fire on your sword to get a fire sword! Write flesh kitten chainsaw on your sword to cause it to cut like a chainsaw made of a thousand little kitten claws. Basically, it doesn't transform things into other things, it just gives them aspects of those things.

Now, for transformative spells I was thinking that it would be the same as enchanting, except that instead of just writing or drawing or engraving the words, you have to inscribe the word or words on a piece of material and then physically implant it in whatever you want to transform. Ie, to transform into steel, you would need to get a steel stud or something, engrave the word for steel on it and then jam it into your flesh. Transforming your whole body would require lots of these "piercings" and it would prevent people from just willy nilly transforming themselves into steam or lightning or toxin. You'd have to plan things out very carefully, transforming in stages and using solidified forms of substances. You could also, say, implant a steel rod with "Steel sword" on it to transform that limb into a steel sword. etc.
Transformation spells could be though circles.

212
Will doesnt help you if you re being smashed in the face agaisnt the ground... Oh wait look at that giant lion behind you. Oh wait you looked at it! Your brain just exploded.
Aaaand thats the reason you had so many chances at beating me. Circle of repel flesh wouldnt be a weapon but rather a protection, you wouldnt be able to get though it with your mere fists within a few turns (Depending on mage channeling) since will doesnt require pool, you can destroy people outside while safe of physical characters.
And sprinting doesnt really help you, as once you get the words to define the position you can attack players without the distances matter anymore. *Lava Where im thinking at* now its raining lava over you, or right where you step, or inside your lungs. Same with Control What im thinking of, it can affect anything you can think off, thus you could be controlled even if you re running two rooms away.

Science is gonna be done, considering there are more players at magic than physical, you cant stop that, and words will be learnt. One single turn can find a word that will easily kill physical characters. And so far no magical weapons have been able to hurt arcane energy persons. The only words i remember in Perplexicon capable of heavily hurting Arcane Energy were quicksilver and Arcane Energy itself, but triying to take a weapon out of arcane energy isnt a good idea, even if the hilt seems safe. And a weapon out of solid quicksilver will be too heavy as to be useful, and to toxic as to be safe to use.

Willmancers do not need for speed and avoiding, they can simply create a few creatures to slow enemies down while skulls are crushed, blood boils, eyes fly away like rockets, and persons are controlled into destroying stuff and killing themselves.

Conclusion: Pure-Physical characters will never beat an magical player with same quantity of souls. Magic weapons can be easily destroyed by Dispel Magic.
Also people wasnt original enough with will back in Perplexicon. Did anyone ever try to make a will-modified living magic armor? *Tries to punch person in the face, when suddenly spikes grow from helmet and pierce your hand, then the armor casts a lightning and you re dead.

You're speaking in pure hypothetical again. And Science takes time, at best it takes one turn. One turn, plenty of time to get shoulder-checked from the other side of the room. And that's supposing you find a good word immediately, instead of finding "flower" or "yellow", which are just as likely as finding anything else. The physical characters does not need to have any set-up to do an uppercut or headbutt. If you set up the hypothetical that will-based characters can easily summon up familiars, I can do the exact same and say that physical characters can bash you in before you could get a decent word out.

I made a physical character. He only could hurt and killed because of physical moves. And his killer died attempting magic.

Starting mages are weaker than physical characters. They have the potential to overpower physical characters, but in all situations with a new mage and new melee character battling, all variables make the former weaker than the latter at that point. The option of the mage is either to try to fight back, run away, or attempt a spell, which might be something good, and then might be properly cast.

Also, I find that I can have more fun role-playing physical characters than mages. And you can't beat that.
Last thing is your opinion.
Also, you cant kill, as i said, seven mages at once. And a mage might beat a physical character, overall considering they can overdrive.
You can bash one person. Then what? In a turn seven people with magic can easily do enough science as that will 99% find a word able to kill phisical. And then you wont stand a chance agaisnt most good mages.

Also Harry just used all the points on strenght... Does he realize that he still has to do endurance rolls whenever he absorbs stuff? Just throw a giant metal cylinder or something at him and he should implode.

213
You would have a point... If in the game Toaster is speaking about you didnt start with 75% of the words, including control. Really, a pure physical character haves no chance. Fine your fast and strong, but you would have same ploblem than you did here: How would you hurt for example someone made of Arcane Energy? How would you destroy though a circle of Repel Flesh before your brain explodes due to the will dude inside? How would you beat the hordes of creatures that would come?

Seriously, if there are fixed stats and you start with enough points, 1 will and 38 channeling is ALL you need to create this:
Giant Magic Eldritch Steel Strong Fast Agile Resistant Potency+ Will+ Dragon, Poison Teeth, Magic Draining Crystal Gas Breath, Arcane Energy Necromantic Life Drain Eye Beams, Solid Dark Magma Claws, Solid Acid Horns, Solid Darkness Absorb Strenght Wings.

Considering you start with Control and What im thinking of, a player could literally control anything on the whole map he can think about, and if lucky, he will only need one turn per kill. Or less. A will mage can easily kill a bunch of people in a turn causing earthquakes, or mind controlling one into casting a living hell over them.

Key phrase: initial advantage.

It doesn't matter what sort of words you have if you have no clue what they mean. A physical character is not going to be intimidated by a mage going: "I will summon a giant monstrous beast that will kill you! Just give me a few turns to figure out the words, and please stop punching me in the face." Plus, if you're going to devote your Stats to Channeling and Will, you can't be very good at dodging or blocking attacks. All the Will in the world doesn't help you recover from having your face smashed into the ground repeatedly.

How do you hurt someone of Arcane Energy? Find one of the plentiful magical weapons laying around, or get a wizard friend like I did. Circle of Repel Flesh? Just use your increased agility to run away while the slower and squishier mages succumb. How do you beat a horde of creatures? Kill their creator before he or she can summon them.

It was only my own fault for not getting involved earlier, when words had not been fully defined. Physical characters are to sprinters as mages are to marathoners. The victor would be determined based on the length and point of the race.
Will doesnt help you if you re being smashed in the face agaisnt the ground... Oh wait look at that giant lion behind you. Oh wait you looked at it! Your brain just exploded.
Aaaand thats the reason you had so many chances at beating me. Circle of repel flesh wouldnt be a weapon but rather a protection, you wouldnt be able to get though it with your mere fists within a few turns (Depending on mage channeling) since will doesnt require pool, you can destroy people outside while safe of physical characters.
And sprinting doesnt really help you, as once you get the words to define the position you can attack players without the distances matter anymore. *Lava Where im thinking at* now its raining lava over you, or right where you step, or inside your lungs. Same with Control What im thinking of, it can affect anything you can think off, thus you could be controlled even if you re running two rooms away.

Science is gonna be done, considering there are more players at magic than physical, you cant stop that, and words will be learnt. One single turn can find a word that will easily kill physical characters. And so far no magical weapons have been able to hurt arcane energy persons. The only words i remember in Perplexicon capable of heavily hurting Arcane Energy were quicksilver and Arcane Energy itself, but triying to take a weapon out of arcane energy isnt a good idea, even if the hilt seems safe. And a weapon out of solid quicksilver will be too heavy as to be useful, and to toxic as to be safe to use.

Willmancers do not need for speed and avoiding, they can simply create a few creatures to slow enemies down while skulls are crushed, blood boils, eyes fly away like rockets, and persons are controlled into destroying stuff and killing themselves.

Conclusion: Pure-Physical characters will never beat an magical player with same quantity of souls. Magic weapons can be easily destroyed by Dispel Magic.
Also people wasnt original enough with will back in Perplexicon. Did anyone ever try to make a will-modified living magic armor? *Tries to punch person in the face, when suddenly spikes grow from helmet and pierce your hand, then the armor casts a lightning and you re dead.

214
Roll To Dodge / Re: Perpublicon: Publishing the Perplexicon
« on: September 17, 2013, 10:01:33 am »
Intriguing. How does that work? Does everyone know all the words to start, or is there a GM, or what?
We switch the GM, so far im getting ready for the first round with four persons apart of myself.

215
Roll To Dodge / Re: Perpublicon: Publishing the Perplexicon
« on: September 17, 2013, 09:21:35 am »
What about a word for Mutagenic? Would have effects similar to Parathun but weaker.

Also i made what could be called Perplexicon: The Table Game, done with decorations and stuff. The arena is kinda similar to a DND Dungeon, albeit smaller (4-5 rooms), and is made to play with friends in your own house.

216
Will isn't going to let you completely break physics.  Some amount of conservation of mass will still apply.  Willing yourself stronger will make you slower, and things like that.  Converting one material to another entirely is outside the scope of will.

Also, will changes aren't instant.  It's not going to help you if a black hole opens up right next to you, for example.
I do know that to win stats you must sacrifice other, and you dont convert stuff, you just give qualities to things that dont normally have them. And i dont know about Pit of Magic, but in Perplexicon if you had control of it and good enough will rolls you could instantly shut down black holes.

217
If it became a real problem, I could just either nerf the scope of its effect (so a bigger action would take longer) or sim in some sort of "will points" that wears you out the more you mentally command things.
It all becomes a problem when you have someone with a +5 or more. But to be fair, that's the case with anything in RtD systems. It's just that Will has the distinction of something that doesn't require much interaction with other skills, and can also be something that most people don't have a lot of points in.

Speaking of the RtD limitations (not really), has anyone here played Fate Core? Because I've heard of it as a system that is also simple to learn, but provides great sense of progression and uniqueness. And is not broken.

The ploblem with will is that you can literally do ANYTHING with it, as long as you have the materials. And materials can be easily obtained, or you can for example not convert stone into steel, but make a stone steel hard and diamond sharp, then shape it as an sword, while it being light as a feather in weight. And will can also heal way easier than normal magic, plus you can use will to change your stats at any time. Oh look! A blackhole and i dont have blackhole control, but i have bone control! Ill make my own bones heavier increasing my strenght while reducing my speed and dext! Oh wait look! An impossible to avoid spell! Ill reduce my speed and max my endurance! Oh look, an army of creatures comes at me! Ill reduce all my stats except will and control them all while exploding the brains of enemy persons!

Will replaces all the other stats and upgrades them. (Except pool, which any person should have atleast three of). Also, trust me, if you suddenly get control word in middle of a game, and had somewhat amount of will from before, there is no force that is gonna stop you except tons of luck. Use it to attack the player with most souls and make his bones explode, then use all his souls to further get more will, then just spawn kill everyone to get more souls on will.
There will be a point of in where people wont simply be able to start with enough will to kill whoever did that, but the other stats will be useless agaisnt him too.

Only way to protect you from direct will attacks would be imbue yourself with Dispel Magic, but circles are not in this game, thus you cant. And even if you could, they can still do stuff like creating swords of stone and firing them at you, or moving all the air around you away so you cant breathe.

218
Yeah, if I gave you starting words, they'd be more Steel and Helmet and less Control and Arcane.  You'd have to science out the big stuff, and it may be tricky to do so if some muscular fellow keeps bashing your skull in with a club.


Will has some built in limiters.  See:

Hmm... I wonder.

Modified Science.

[will:1+2]
[john will:3]

Both you and john spasm violently and collapse to the ground with terrible headaches.

And that was a tie.  Failing the opposed roll is bad- doing so badly is worse, and may even allow the control to flow the other way.

If it became a real problem, I could just either nerf the scope of its effect (so a bigger action would take longer) or sim in some sort of "will points" that wears you out the more you mentally command things.
Actually, you dont need to do opposed rolls, you can just create a earthquake under him, or a blackhole that only affects that person.
Either ways, will itself can be used to increase will, which gives you an extra +1(You can get more if you sacrifice other stats, so you can sacrifice useless strenght to get more). You can use marks to get +2. With 6 Will points that makes +4, and you still have three four points for channeling. (Note, im speaking about Perplexicon rules, since those are the only we know so far, we dont know exactly how will may work in here)

219
Roll To Dodge / Re: Perpublicon: Publishing the Perplexicon
« on: September 17, 2013, 12:51:31 am »
Full body is a mark, not a tatoo.

Thearpox: Earlier tatoos were more like enchantment/imbue circles while now they seem more like... the circles that makes stuff appear.

Xantalos: Many Many Many Diamond Arcanebeam breathing dragons (Tatoo)

220
Yes. A person with pure strenght cant do a thing agaisnt someone with high will, not even being faster. Let me put it like that: A Person with 7 Will can control three creatures at a time, and 3 Channeling gives him the ability to do an item if he knows the word, which allows him to control everything. Even if that person is slow, you can control literally anything you can imagine, including minds. And for the ´´What im thinking of`` word there is not a limit range, a willmancer could be making heads explode from his base while protected by three powerful summons, no matter how far they are.

Strength/Speed based characters have the initial advantage over Will and even Channeling people in the early game. A hearty supply of words doesn't offer much help early on before the meanings are deciphered. Before they're with a proper arsenal, good wizards are usually quite squishy when it comes to physicality, which means any spell can be deflected with a good dropkick to the face.
That is correct. Do I take it you've decided to join the Debate Crew?

Not really, but I'll do anything to defend the integrity of Physical Characters, who have been victimized enough in the world of magic arenas.
You would have a point... If in the game Toaster is speaking about you didnt start with 75% of the words, including control. Really, a pure physical character haves no chance. Fine your fast and strong, but you would have same ploblem than you did here: How would you hurt for example someone made of Arcane Energy? How would you destroy though a circle of Repel Flesh before your brain explodes due to the will dude inside? How would you beat the hordes of creatures that would come?

Seriously, if there are fixed stats and you start with enough points, 1 will and 38 channeling is ALL you need to create this:
Giant Magic Eldritch Steel Strong Fast Agile Resistant Potency+ Will+ Dragon, Poison Teeth, Magic Draining Crystal Gas Breath, Arcane Energy Necromantic Life Drain Eye Beams, Solid Dark Magma Claws, Solid Acid Horns, Solid Darkness Absorb Strenght Wings.

Considering you start with Control and What im thinking of, a player could literally control anything on the whole map he can think about, and if lucky, he will only need one turn per kill. Or less. A will mage can easily kill a bunch of people in a turn causing earthquakes, or mind controlling one into casting a living hell over them.

221
How about a game of "CTF Escalation"? Killing gives no stat points, stat-altering words are locked or replaced. However, the team that brings the flag home gives the opposing team members, each, an extra point, permanent, for every flag they've lost. So that with the first flag, the enemy gets 1 extra point, with the second they get 3 extra points total, up to a total of 10 extra points with the fourth flag, in a game to five captures. This keeps the game balanced and allows the losing team to catch up, unless the winning team just outskills or outsmarts them.
Now one of the teams must go half players to speed and half to will, then create a fusion circle and fuse whole team in a super person.
The other team will be: Oh sh** once armies of walking abominations and earthquakes destroy the base.

222
Hm.  I'd almost rather force you to make a choice and stick with it.  If I did allow respecs, they would be limited in some way.
And would you be able to use Teleportation Circles? Even if you cant teleport orb though them it would allow for some interesting traps, like activating it when enemies are getting nearby and teleporting them just a few kilometers of distance...

Either ways, if every team knows the powerful spells such as control pretty much everyone would go will, Will is the strongest stats in the game pretty much, if you dont have a nice quantity of will you get converted into a cube of flesh, the ploblem with will is that you need specific words for it to be useful, but once it is... Well, unless you add circles of Enchantment so that we can imbue ourselves with Dispel Magic circles which makes us resistant to will... And even then, while they cant directly make stuff like *explode your eyes* they can still make stuff like *Convert a building into a giant sword, then throw it at you*

I see. Maybe some base stats and flexible ones? Mostly so that we don't get someone with a +3 to speed that can outrun everybody and capture the flag again and again without even geting hit, and without giving the other team a way to counteract this.
What im thinking of word has unlimited range. Just make a blackhole spawn over his head, no matter where he is. If he has no strenght or will and blackhole control hes dead.

223
You should consider adopting my system for the CTF Variant. Allow people to have up to +3 or -3 in stats to start with, with an equal number of each, but no points for killing people.
Will is the most powerful stat if you use it correctly... It wouldnt be a good idea to give people a chance to have a +5 to it. -3 Strenght, Increase Will. -3 Endurance, Increase speed. Words+Will would allow you to have a +5 to will and a +5 to speed... Rolls 11 to will, the whole other team explodes.
Well, let's change that to one team with dexterity and will, while the other has speed and strenght. Would this be way more unfair?
Yes. A person with pure strenght cant do a thing agaisnt someone with high will, not even being faster. Let me put it like that: A Person with 7 Will can control three creatures at a time, and 3 Channeling gives him the ability to do an item if he knows the word, which allows him to control everything. Even if that person is slow, you can control literally anything you can imagine, including minds. And for the ´´What im thinking of`` word there is not a limit range, a willmancer could be making heads explode from his base while protected by three powerful summons, no matter how far they are.
Still, you can have an Strong Metal Lion, Speedy Electric Hawk and Winged Diamond Sword to protect you, and not only that, will allows you to increase some of their stats without using words, so you can make a metal lion with +2 rolls to strenght, or a metal lion with +1 strenght and +1 speed...
Those three creatures theirselves wouldnt be so dangerous if they werent a mere distraction. A turn and some luck is all what needs a person with will to make your blood as heavy as quicksilver.
And Will can also heal and do many other things the other stats lack.

Angle: They arent that hard to learn nor rare. If you already have knowledge of what to expect you can learn to use it quite fast. And rare... You only have to test each page once to get a general idea of where it may be. With a team of people that wont take long.

224
You should consider adopting my system for the CTF Variant. Allow people to have up to +3 or -3 in stats to start with, with an equal number of each, but no points for killing people.
Will is the most powerful stat if you use it correctly... It wouldnt be a good idea to give people a chance to have a +5 to it. -3 Strenght, Increase Will. -3 Endurance, Increase speed. Words+Will would allow you to have a +5 to will and a +5 to speed... Rolls 11 to will, the whole other team explodes.

225
Actually, in the CFT, there should be fixed stats. The only incentive to kill other people should be to slow them.
Still, there are words that increase dexterity and will, and you can then use your own will to further increase your speed.
Have 3 Dexterity, 3 Will and 3 Channeling and if you have time and know the words no one will be able to stop you.

Whole body Agile Will+, and then make a Control what im thinking of Ring, and use that ring to make your bones flexible or something so that its easier to avoid. Speed also works. Dexterity/Speed+Will makes the best combos in game, since if your dext+will you can avoid what they throw at you while closing potentially dangers (Like blackholes) and with speed+will you can explode their brains before they can move a finger.

3 Dext+3 Will=+1 to each. With words, +2. With will, +3 to dext and +2 to will. You re now one of the most dangerous players ingame.

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