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[Patchy]

The town of tables... that is a bit odd. I usually don't bother with adventure mode though. So I'm not much help there.

And those tailslaps look nice... might have to train an elite armoured wrestler squad as a test sometime.

[NW_Kohaku]

Updated the nagas and glazed nagas with new versions that involve plenty of skill tweaks.

I also lowered the strength to normal levels, because I was simply devastating with these tail slaps - I actually tail slapped someone's skull in.  Not even a shake or pinch, just the slap itself shattered a werecritter's skull. 

Nagas are already pretty fast, so being strong AND fast is a little too much.

Anyway, like I feared, once I started dinking around with skills, I wound up with a long list of things that are marginally tweaked.  There are far more bonuses than penalties to skills, but it shouldn't be that unfair, since most of the bonuses are on things like social skills that are basically useless along with some useful things like glassblowing, while mechanics and mining take the most notable hits, which are far more useful to most players. 

[Patchy]

Nothin wrong with a long list of tweaks. It's helping to develope the character of the naga race a bit, and pushes them a bit further away from a simple reskin of dwarves.

Do they just gain skill in mining and mechanics slower? Or do they have a lower cap in their skills, like they can only go to "great" level or what have you?

[Rhenaya]

really like how much thought was put into this
i am just a bit confused about the creature file as it doesnt follow the standard layout like dwarfs (castes last etc :p)

also whats with the naga.txt in speech? is it even be used? because i cant remember there is a reference for that :/


also making sneak:2 a default skill will get you any peasant come as hunter with leather clothing and a ranged weapon to your fort, had similar problem with my drow mod so i gave them default caste skills (cleric aka docotors for females and mechanics for males)
maybe you should do something similar? like giving them 2 in the craft skills to have them all be "crafters" or something like that (military skills sadly wont work to make a difference)

and mabye add smithing to the changed skill rates: weapon smithing and craft should be a bit faster as this is a finer art to make a sharp blade and crafts, while blacksmithing and armoring a bit slower as with the tail they wont use much armor and its like mechanics and mason a bit more "brute" compared to the other two

and while we are at it: inflate skill rates a bit 200-250% faster rate plays a bit insane maybe keep it at 75-150% (150% is really fast anyway)

[NW_Kohaku]

Do they just gain skill in mining and mechanics slower? Or do they have a lower cap in their skills, like they can only go to "great" level or what have you?

No caps, I disdain those.  It rubs against me the wrong way to imply limits on the capacity to learn.

also whats with the naga.txt in speech? is it even be used? because i cant remember there is a reference for that :/

It's used in Adventure Mode when people make boasts.  Run into a werecritter den, and they'll shout something like "I slew blargy blargy longname, whose bones I crushed under the mountain of my contempt!"

Now, they'll say something like "I slew blargy blargy longname, who shed this mortal coil." when it's a naga.

also making sneak:2 a default skill will get you any peasant come as hunter with leather clothing and a ranged weapon to your fort, had similar problem with my drow mod so i gave them default caste skills (cleric aka docotors for females and mechanics for males)
maybe you should do something similar? like giving them 2 in the craft skills to have them all be "crafters" or something like that (military skills sadly wont work to make a difference)

*sigh* I'll just take that part out of the raws, then.  Just having faster skill learning should be enough, anyway. 

and mabye add smithing to the changed skill rates: weapon smithing and craft should be a bit faster as this is a finer art to make a sharp blade and crafts, while blacksmithing and armoring a bit slower as with the tail they wont use much armor and its like mechanics and mason a bit more "brute" compared to the other two

and while we are at it: inflate skill rates a bit 200-250% faster rate plays a bit insane maybe keep it at 75-150% (150% is really fast anyway)

I wanted to avoid the metalsmithing ones, because this is supposed to be in comparison to dwarves.  Dwarves are fine metalsmiths, and nagas are capable metalsmiths that have a knack for the fine grace of the job, but that wouldn't make them necessarily better than dwarves at one of their specialties. 

I'm pretty sure the super rate gains, however (the ones over 150%) were on skills that are basically never used, though, like the speech skills, or the medical skills, which are very hard to train, and as such, would be a place where a more significant jump wouldn't be too overwhelming, and would, in fact, just make it noticeable. 

[Rhenaya]

i meant you dont have the speech:naga.txt in your creature file... its not referenced :p also reminded me i still had the speech:elf.txt in my drow file xD well just another update :x

well sad if you just remove it then, though you could make a new interaction like the squeed just with additional attack and only hide instead of just fleeing and material emission, they will always enter sneak mode as soon they see an enemy and ambush them ^^ that will train them in sneak fast, was testing around with my drow for that, though decided i leave cloud of darkness just for fleeing as of now (but maybe make it attack again)

also interaction make me for a new greeting interaction: like the headbump from cats and narwhales some kind of friendly tail slap

about the smithing: well i would at least go metal crafting slightly higher skill rates then
and if you play without traps and true military like me... trust me doctors will raise skill fast enough, but with 250 i would have legendary ones within 4 years from "zero" skill :x

[Patchy]

My docs tend to move backwards in skill lvl faster than they go forward. Though thats generally because I use various trap chambers to do the heavy lifting and my military is usually only there to mop up the occasional survivor, fbs, and other assorted problems that traps don't take care of as well.

Though was planning on making a larger military with the nagas then I normally do. Especially since they are big enough to 1 hand some of the larger weapons. Some halberdier and pike-nagas should be quite fun.

[NW_Kohaku]

Ah, I forgot that I removed the speech:naga.txt because I didn't know what it meant or did at the time.  I'll have to add that again.

I also personally prefer using the insanely convoluted series of deathtraps route to fortress defense, and view the need to actually melee as a failure to properly build devious enough deathtraps.  (Firing crossbows through murderholes is acceptable, however, as a secondary defense, provided I have drawbridge shutters.)  I make a point of having the safest fortresses dwarvenly/naganly possible.  (I have run a fort that got to year 5 without a death before.)

But then, there is a quote from me on someone's sig where I say that I'm only really interested in DF for the ability to be creative, and not for the military aspects of the game.

EDIT: Hmm... one-handing pikes shouldn't be possible.  Maybe I should create some custom weapons, as well?

I kind of like the notion more that they prefer thrusting weapons, since they could use a coil-and-lunge attack more effectively.  I could make some "Nagan spears" or "Nagan lances", but I'm kind of ambivalent on that...

On interactions: Snakes will twine their tails around one another, especially when about to get... intimate.  They also basically wrestle by twining around each other and slamming each other into the ground when males compete for a mate. 

I think that's a little too... personal to be doing on anyone they meet, though.  ("Hi, nice to meet you. HUGS!")

Snakes also have that thing where they lick the air because their scent receptors are in their mouths, so I guess greeting people with an air-lick might be possible... if weird. 

[Patchy]

I'm kind of imaging them holding their pike like a knight on horseback holds his lance. So them 1 handing the pike in a charge doesn't seem to odd to me considering their snake half is pretty big. Though 1 handing it in close combat does seem odd.

[Rhenaya]

two handed weapons are two  handed for up to 77500 body size, so the 85000 for naga will wield them one handed, sadly the weapon size only looks at whole body weight instead of the grasp sizes.

so for two handed weapons you should maybe use different "naga weapons" like "naga lance" because of that (my drow females are bigger than males but not as large as humans) i made own drow weapons so they can use their own brand of two handed swords etc (also i think weapons will look differently and later will change the contact sizes etc to differ them even more)

for the tail hug: well for such socially strong creatures as your naga i would think it would just meet perfectly, also its just a "contact" so more like giving hands with tail etc
you can also give it the IT_AFFECTED_CREATURE:NAGA token so they will only do it with each other?

[NW_Kohaku]

I updated the Nagas and Glazed Nagas again.

I added in BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS so now there are actually sites to visit when you are playing Adventure Mode, and you're stuck just wandering around boring old human cities all the time.

I could do the two-handed weapon split, but the thing is, I'll still run across human weapons all the time, so I'd really just have to change the original human weapons, rather than creating new weapons. 

As for the tail hugs thing, how does that show up in fortress mode?  I don't want to spam players with tail hug messages. 

[Patchy]

Sounds like they'll be extremely powerful on the offense. Maybe you can balance that by reducing their armour options. Maybe they can only forge chain and bucklers as their highest armour type. Unless of course they buy/loot stuff off visitors.

[NW_Kohaku]

Their tails are already somewhat vulnerable, thanks to the imperfect cover their custom armor gives them, and they can't wear junk made by any other race because of their size (the building forts should help give you places to loot for more stuff). 

In fact, my adventurer right now has no tail armor or arm armor besides the starting cloth.

[DarthBoogalo]

Ooh! Ooh ooh ooh! Idea!!!1
A rare caste of naga, hairless and covered completely in scales, with a poisonous bite and some natural skill in biting.
Yes?

[NW_Kohaku]

Well, the major reason I avoided heavy caste changes this time around, as opposed to with Stonehall, is that I couldn't actually represent different castes with the graphics pack.  The graphics pack being the whole reason this mod was done, basically.

I could put a rare "serpent child" in, but it wouldn't be apparent who they were the way you would expect.  I also wouldn't really be able to make them different in any way that is readily apparent in-game unless I start cutting off a large number of features for that caste - they'd look the same, wear clothes the same, do jobs the same.  They'd just have that bite and different description.