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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 2384560 times)

Naryar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1290 on: April 09, 2012, 12:15:31 pm »

Yes ! We will be able to kill gobbos with minecarts ! YES !

Arkenstone

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1291 on: April 09, 2012, 12:34:54 pm »

By the way, after all the questions related to the image below, it only seemed appropriate to go draw it.

Spoiler: Dodge this! (click to show/hide)

Did I portray it accurately? O.o

I really hope that Toady decides to keep the inevitable dorferry on tracks in the final game.  After all, moderately-intelligent humans do it sometimes IRL, so it'd probably be more unreasonable to expect dwarfs not to.


PS:
Can speeding carts launch off ramps, or only off vertical drops?
EDIT: Never mind, answered below.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 08:32:29 pm by Arkenstone »
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Dwarven economics are still in the experimental stages. The humans have told them that they need to throw a lot of money around to get things going, but every time the dwarves try all they just end up with a bunch of coins lying all over the place.

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Feel free to ask me any questions you have about logic/computing; I'm majoring in the topic.

Willfor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1292 on: April 09, 2012, 12:46:14 pm »

PS:
Can speeding carts launch off ramps, or only off vertical drops?
From how he answered a similar question previously, I think that a cart will just naturally launch itself off of any track ending when it's going fast enough. It's likely that if you've built a ramp, and hit it fast enough, the cart will skip the end of the track, and it will continue its course in a parabolic arc.
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eux0r

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1293 on: April 09, 2012, 01:41:40 pm »

PS:
Can speeding carts launch off ramps, or only off vertical drops?

Quote from: DevLog_5.4.2012
... and they fly in little parabolas and crash into the ground when you set them free, either straight off a cliff or launched from a short upward ramp.
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drvoke

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1294 on: April 09, 2012, 04:50:28 pm »

This seriously keeps getting better and better.  From simple hauling efficiency fixes, to minecarts, to rollercoasters, to unit/object following!  This is going to be one of the best DF releases ever.
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dhoovr

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1295 on: April 09, 2012, 04:52:07 pm »

I was thinking those cart boosters would look more like those log pushers in the woodcutting mills in skyrim.  Not boosting them off at 50 mph more like hooking onto the undercarriage and pushing up an incline.  Maybe with enough speed to get it up a single ramp.

Minecarts are heavy after all, and if the weight of the minecart exceeds the weight of the water pushing on the wheel the cart is going nowhere.  Any gearing to increase the speed is just going to increase the effective weight of the cart against the system.  Hell it would probably need to be downshifted in reality to get a loaded cart going anywhere.
Well since power is being supplied from a spinning axle, and, since a moving cart will either be slowed down or sped up when going through a "booster" it has to be either a Hot Wheels type accelerator with two oppositely spinning wheels positioned perpendicularly and on either side of the cart, or them positioned parallel but some how able to grip a section of the cart (like a lattice extending on both sides). Since Dwarves don't have rubber or any material that can grab (grind stones maybe?) I'd imagine a lattice on both sides of the cart which spinning "Hot Wheels-esq" gears can grab and accelerate.

The method from "log pushers in the woodcutting mills in skyrim," which I believe is the same method to accelerate aircraft off an aircraft carrier, would stop the moving cart upon hitting the "hook" from behind or require extremely complicated mechanics to get it to extend and grab the cart as it passes...etc.

But yeah proper conservation of energy isn't really a consideration in Dwarven contraptions.

EDIT: So I guess the real question here is:
What items will be required in the construction of a "roller?"
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 05:29:27 pm by dhoovr »
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1296 on: April 09, 2012, 05:29:54 pm »

What happens to the contents of a cart when a cart crashes? Would they be flung all over the place or would they stay inside the cart? Would this be different if the contents were 15 shoes or a dwarf? Also, do carts take damage after wrecks and collisions? Will it be possible to repair damaged carts?
Toady implied that when cart crashes, that it'd lead to FUN, including the contents in the cart. And contents are contents.

It's probably unlikely that Carts take damage. Like Footkercheif was just saying, items in general dont take damage (except for ammo).
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1297 on: April 09, 2012, 05:35:11 pm »

And does anybody know who makes the tracks- is it miners or engravers?

The word Toady used was "carve," which definitely sounds like engravers to me.

Also sounds to me like they will be constructible. Out of stone by masons, out of metal by metalcrafter, out of mermaid bones by the butcher, and whatever profession is appropriate. Hopefully we get multiple track pieces per a metal bar, like in that other incarnation XD . Also, the post spellchecker just tried to change my 'constructible' into 'constructable'.

By the way, after all the questions related to the image below, it only seemed appropriate to go draw it.

Spoiler: Dodge this! (click to show/hide)

Did I portray it accurately? O.o

It seems like yea for natural stone that Engravers are good bet for it. Though for constructed rails, I think that depends if they count as furniture or tools or constructions. If they're tools then Rails will be built by the craft dorf. If they're furniture or constructions then Mason or Carpentry, or Metal workshop depending on the materiel.

Though I dont think rails previous to Locomotives were made out of metal, and the ties especially weren't made out of metal.
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monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1298 on: April 09, 2012, 06:54:00 pm »

I'd imagine a lattice on both sides of the cart which spinning "Hot Wheels-esq" gears can grab and accelerate.

I think I'll be going with this, mostly because it implies furiously spinning pointy gears at head level.

Farmerbob

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1299 on: April 09, 2012, 08:15:01 pm »

By the way I see begining of an era of minecart logic computing!
I think, more important that it could become another universal solution to all problems instead of magma with proper usage of these accelerating rollers and high accelerating towers. Zombies? Use railgun! FBs? Railgun!

Oh, that actually made me wonder.
Is there any limit to the speed of minecart? Will it reach speed of light after going through synchrotron or very, very tall acceleration tower?

You chose that word, railguns, intentionally and with mischevious intent, didn't you?

Only in dwarf fortress do you get railguns before gunpowder  :)  Of course the railguns shoot mine carts, but who's lawyering here.
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Arkenstone

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1300 on: April 09, 2012, 08:33:19 pm »

PS:
Can speeding carts launch off ramps, or only off vertical drops?

Quote from: DevLog_5.4.2012
... and they fly in little parabolas and crash into the ground when you set them free, either straight off a cliff or launched from a short upward ramp.
Oops, missed that.  Went back and de-green'd the question.
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Quote from: Retro
Dwarven economics are still in the experimental stages. The humans have told them that they need to throw a lot of money around to get things going, but every time the dwarves try all they just end up with a bunch of coins lying all over the place.

The EPIC Dwarven Drinking Song of Many Names

Feel free to ask me any questions you have about logic/computing; I'm majoring in the topic.

Farmerbob

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1301 on: April 09, 2012, 09:06:45 pm »

It's in, as of the last dev log. Also, these hauling routes are shaping up to be awesome.  This update is going to impact Fortress Mode Gameplay waaay more than 34.01 did. I'm excited!

I would not say that.  Vampires, werecritters, and all the rains and mists and whatnot have made embarking in the wrong place FAR more challenging these days.

I'd say that more fortresses will be impacted by this as time moves forward, but that's because people will embark in fewer evil biomes than before, so the effects of the 0.34 change are less actively noticeable to the average player who doesn't want to fool with the really difficult embarks and simply avoids them.  That doesn't mean the effect isn't as significant :)

Lets not fight over it though, 0.34 and the cart release patch are both world-shakers.

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Farmerbob

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1302 on: April 09, 2012, 09:08:27 pm »

:o New dev log... is wow. How is he completing this stuff so quick? I mean, conditions with which to deal with carts being held or moved. That was unexpected.

Toady has apparently acquired rights to use a port of Railroad Tycoon and import it into DF.  *grin*

There's a very good chance that most of this has been bubbling in the Toad's head for months if not years waiting for an opportune time to find it's way into code.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1303 on: April 09, 2012, 09:34:15 pm »

And does anybody know who makes the tracks- is it miners or engravers?

The word Toady used was "carve," which definitely sounds like engravers to me.

I figured it was like Fortifications, where the Engraver can carve them in natural stone or your Masons can construct them if the track goes across soil or for color coordination purposes.



And this one goes back a ways, to trying to imagine the speed boosting rollers in a way that makes sense- I've been picturing them like a Hot Wheels track. Just thought I'd share.

I can easily imagine a two real world roller systems to accelerate carts.

1) The cart passes between wheels that press against the sides of the cart, grabbing it, and pushing it forward.

2) The cart passes over a roller in the missle of the track which has gears or hooks or something that grab and push the cart forward.


Looked at in the real world, 1 is a more sound solution, as #2 would have a significant possibility of pushing the cart up into the air and dismounting it off the tracks if something goes wrong with the mechanisms.  #1, the wheels can be angled slightly towards the tracks, putting downward force on the cart to hold it on the tracks while it's being accelerated.
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EmeraldWind

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1304 on: April 09, 2012, 09:36:15 pm »

It's in, as of the last dev log. Also, these hauling routes are shaping up to be awesome.  This update is going to impact Fortress Mode Gameplay waaay more than 34.01 did. I'm excited!

I would not say that.  Vampires, werecritters, and all the rains and mists and whatnot have made embarking in the wrong place FAR more challenging these days.

I'd say that more fortresses will be impacted by this as time moves forward, but that's because people will embark in fewer evil biomes than before, so the effects of the 0.34 change are less actively noticeable to the average player who doesn't want to fool with the really difficult embarks and simply avoids them.  That doesn't mean the effect isn't as significant :)

Lets not fight over it though, 0.34 and the cart release patch are both world-shakers.

It shouldn't be forgotten that 0.34 was intended as an improvement for Adventure mode more than Fort mode. So it's natural that something like this would effect Fort mode more. So really, there is no need to debate about it really.

I'm already planning on using microcline to construct my garbage line. If I make the carts out of microcline, I might just launch the carts and make it a one way trip. Don't ride the Blue Line!

Are the carts constructed onto the tracks or are the added to the track like how a lever is linked?
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