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[EnigmaticHat]

As such, I would be surprised to see Toady add this or even touch it. For that matter, I'm not aware of many games in which orientation comes up.

Toady's second biggest playable game, Liberal Crime Squad, allows you to seduce characters and completely ignores gender for this process.

As for games where orientation comes up, the medieval marriage sim Crusader Kings 2 models homosexuality as a reduction to fertility rate as well as some secondary effects.  There are a whole host of RPGs that let the player take same-sex love interests, and some of these actually take the orientation of the character in question into account (Mass Effect for example has a few female characters who go both ways but most characters are straight).  Characters in games are slowly becoming more varied sexually just like characters in all other stories, although games are lagging behind on this, probably because devs play it safe and stories in games are often secondary.  Off the top of my head, Assassin's Creed 2 outright tells the player Da Vinci is gay the moment you meet him, and Bayonetta is obviously into the S of S&M.

Its not the norm at all, but sexual orientation does come up in games, including a few that prove gay characters don't ruin commercial success.  Toady seems to be at least open to the idea.  His general attitude towards bringing sex (and sexuality by extension, I would assume) into DF is that he isn't personally opposed to the idea but he's cautious because he knows it can create controversy.  He's said relatively little on the subject and hasn't committed to either including it or not including it.

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

You have a point. However, a) most forts fail before becoming that populous, b) you could easily get a mismatch with such small numbers (1 gay dude and 1 gay gal, 3 gay dudes, etc.), and c) having 2-4 gay people live together does not necessarily mean that they will pair off. People won't necessarily get along and relationships are more complex than that.

Though, of course, one could code it to ignore compatibility - even though DF already simulates couple compatibility to some degree.

And anyway, why does it matter? So the gay people end up more likely to stay single, not because it's hard-coded that way, but as an emergent thing due to the numbers involved. I think that's fine. In fact, it could make for interesting stories/character development (when that sort of thing is more developed in the game) to have gay people have trouble finding mates. It's not necessarily unrealistic either, especially for, say, small villages, assuming that 1 to 2% number is correct (I personally think it's somewhere between that and the 10% given before, but that's neither here nor there).

But anyway, it's true that there's plenty of threads on the subject, and further discussions on the subject might be better off in there.

It does make me wonder, though... has any indication been given on when romance and such will be implemented in more detail, or how high of a priority Toady considers it to be? Also, what were those few (four, I believe) possible paths of development after the current release again that Toady mentioned recently? I think it was in the devlog, but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone remember?

[thvaz]

Although I'm not against the idea, I would prefer Toady focusing its time in more interesting features than homosexual characters and relationships, given how underdeveloped are the sex and relationships aspects of the game.

[Trif]

That's all nice and good, but could we stop the derailment now?
If you want to continue the discussion, feel free to necro read one of these threads:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=66677.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82822.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106704.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119260.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121317.0

[Emily Murkpaddled]

So excited with the recent conversation devlogs, I've always longed for more autonomy in my dwarfs (both in Fortress and Adventure modes). Having my hired companion say enough is enough and walk out on me with the set of chainmail I provided him before I showed him the dragon's lair is absolutely a-okay with me. Very excited!

[mastahcheese]

So how will the BAC check for companion loyalty work? Will they just up and say "goodbye" and whatever time, or will they wait until they wake up from camp, say "we need to talk" and tell you like that? Also, with the way courage was being worked on this release, would that check be done whenever you come up against a partiucular nasty foe, or when you get out numbered?

I could totally see a horde of companions following you, and once you turn the corner and the minotaur shows his face, half your party just says "forget this!"

[NW_Kohaku]

So how will the BAC check for companion loyalty work? Will they just up and say "goodbye" and whatever time, or will they wait until they wake up from camp, say "we need to talk" and tell you like that?

*waking up*

"Wait, where am I? Who are you? What am I wearing? AND OH ARMOK, WHOSE BLOOD IS THIS?! IS THIS AN EAR STUCK IN MY TEETH?!"

[mastahcheese]

With different factions starting thier own wars and such, and individual dwarves being tied to their fations apart from other dwarves, will we ever see something such as a civil war happen in a fort? Such as friendly migrants coming in, and then when a war breaks out, will they have to choose between their former loyalties or their new ones?

[EnigmaticHat]

It does make me wonder, though... has any indication been given on when romance and such will be implemented in more detail, or how high of a priority Toady considers it to be?

From the old dev document, which was replaced by the current more short-term and easier to maintain documentation, there are several mentions of romance and its related issues.  There's a love and romance core goal (which means we won't be in DF 1.0 until we have love and romance), as well a relationship arc that includes getting married and having kids as an adventurer.  There's also a powergoal that implies a detailed simulation of sexual attraction: 

PowerGoal68, MAGICAL IDIOT PEEPER, (Future): Hearing of her exotic beauty, the young knave uses a ring to open a portal in the wall of the princess's bedroom, wrenching a small cylinder of stone out of the wall via its magical powers. However, the stories had all been told by Southmen, and she was in fact quite unattractive by the different standards of his culture.

According to that document, love and romance will begin being implemented in greater detail one short arc after the army arc.  However be aware DF's development can be unpredictable outside of the short-term.  If you're interested, you can check out the document here:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_single.html
Its quite the read.  It's outdated but still represents the general character of where Toady wants to take DF.

That's all nice and good, but could we stop the derailment now?

There's less than a page of combined posts for this "derailment", even if you include "stop talking about this" posts.  Hardly cause for complaint, given how massive this thread is.

[monk12]

So how will the BAC check for companion loyalty work? Will they just up and say "goodbye" and whatever time, or will they wait until they wake up from camp, say "we need to talk" and tell you like that?

*waking up*

"Wait, where am I? Who are you? What am I wearing? AND OH ARMOK, WHOSE BLOOD IS THIS?! IS THIS AN EAR STUCK IN MY TEETH?!"

"How long have I been wielding these yak wool trousers as a weapon? Whose ARE these!?!"

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

According to that document, love and romance will begin being implemented in greater detail one short arc after the army arc.

Oh! I was familiar with the document, but I did not realize that the ordering of the arcs on that page also represented the ordering of their implementation, at least as planned by Toady at that time. Is that really the case?

[thvaz]

According to that document, love and romance will begin being implemented in greater detail one short arc after the army arc.

Oh! I was familiar with the document, but I did not realize that the ordering of the arcs on that page also represented the ordering of their implementation, at least as planned by Toady at that time. Is that really the case?

No. It wasn't when it was a valid design document, and now that it was replaced by another document, it is even less so.

[WillowLuman]

Might even get to relationships before armies, so that we can have Helen of Troy scenarios right off the bat.

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

Might even get to relationships before armies, so that we can have Helen of Troy scenarios right off the bat.

I know people are really excited for the army arc, but I would definitely be cool with that

According to that document, love and romance will begin being implemented in greater detail one short arc after the army arc.

Oh! I was familiar with the document, but I did not realize that the ordering of the arcs on that page also represented the ordering of their implementation, at least as planned by Toady at that time. Is that really the case?

No. It wasn't when it was a valid design document, and now that it was replaced by another document, it is even less so.

Good to know, thanks.

[xoseph]

Agreements:

Will we still get wandering adventurers whose only goals in life are to follow you around and kill things that attack you, with the new agreement system?