We know that, after a time, children kidnapped by Goblins become Goblin-naturalized, to the point of even leading armies against their original civ. Now that abducted children are locatable and rescuable, have you put any thought into how long they have to be saved before they become willing little Goblins themselves (at which point I'd imagine they would no longer want to be rescued)? Would you have this timeframe vary based on certain personality traits of the child abducted, or their age? More importantly - would kids rescued from Goblin civs after a significant length of time be changed in any way, be it in terms of picking up a skill like Shearing from slave labor, or another trait they might acquire from the ordeal?
In world gen, the current rule is that they have to reach adulthood, I think (though I could be misremembering). I'm happy enough with that, though I guess ideally it would be more fun if your captives reacted differently so you couldn't just treat the entire return trip the same way each time. They don't currently do anything there, but if as historical figures it gave them jobs, they'd acquire skills. We're still not really sure what they do with them, in terms of work or indoctrination, so for now they just hang out in cells.
When it comes to sites and modding will it be a matter of deciding if your custom civ uses one of the preset ones or are they more customisable?
What level of customisation are you planning for in future / What is your ideal level and what level do you expect to achieve?
What would happen in world gen if you gave humans goblin style sites? Would the lack of farms lead to starvation?
If a civ conquers a site that wouldn't support their needs how does settling work?
It still works the same way. Once I'm happy with all the sites and things are working well, then it'll be time to move things out to the text files. It'd probably be a happy time to do it when human towns start to look different. Right now, I don't even know what I want of the basic races and having to update text files would slow me down too much. It's similar to the random creatures, though those are farther along. Ideally you'd be able to fiddle with all kinds of architecture and specifics and mix and match every element. I think humans with goblin sites would probably still survive on butchering animals, or even by fake farms if the game just doesn't know what's going on. Conveniently, goblins are the only ones with any fight in them right now. When I do human conquests and have food use in play, that case'll be handled, but it's a bit of trick since it'll either have to involve site expansion or caravans.
Will we have trees massive enough that the trunk alone spans several tiles? Will we then be able to carve fortifications, stairs, etc in the trunk?
Will trees regrow if we prune them? Can we use the fallen leaves as fertilizer?
The trunks can be large. Not sure what the specific options'll be for carving or other uses yet.
Will we have orchards in dwarf mode then? Grapes and proper wine?
He he he, "dwarves with *outdoor* *orchards*" is kind of a double-barreled fundamentally bizarre concept, so I'm not sure I'll be racing for that. On the other hand, doing anything with underground vegetation along the same lines would pretty much let you do it above ground (if you are some kind of shaved-faced freak), so I wouldn't rule it out. I doubt you'd ever compete in global trade with the people that live in forests under the sun and so on.
How moddable will the following be: tree shape, size, quantity of fruit bearing
Will all trees have different defined varieties of leaves/petals/etc? For example, pine trees will have pine needles, oak trees will have oak leaves, palm trees will have palm fronds.
Will the varieties of tree produce have different specific uses? IE sap from a maple tree could be made into a syrup, while syrups made from saps taken from other trees would be inedible.
With the implementation of the other new sites, will this in turn allow for more variety with human sites, since the code has been expanded upon?
Will trees legitimately spread through methods such as seeds in fruit, or will they still just spawn?
As for the first few lines, yeah, all pretty good there. Haven't done anything with sap. I haven't expanded human sites, but yeah, the potential increases as I add non-human sites, but not really modding wise for this time. I haven't gone down into actual seeding yet.
We're getting fruits and flowers, so will we have seeding patterns too?
With the addition of fruits and flowers on trees, will animals such as elephants be able to browse trees?
Will roots be able to damage structures within your fortress?
Are all trees going to use the new multi-tile code?
Some real life trees, such as Baobabs, store large quantities of water inside their trunks. Will some large trees be filled with replenishing water?
No specific reproduction information at this point. Not doing tree browsing yet. The vast majority of trees don't do the massive taproot thing, so I'm not sure if any interesting things will happen with roots, but if you are playing like a hill dwarf and mucking about in the soil, you might run into trouble with roots, especially if you are shallow. All trees but saplings will use multitile code. I think trees at higher elevations should end up properly stunted, but might still get 2 tiles tall to distinguish them from saplings. Don't have special plans for the odd cases, aside from things like basic saguaro shapes and things like that.
Will invaders be linked to the new elven and goblin sites?
And if so, will this have any effect on sieges? Variety of unit types, historical figures, etc?
Yeah, I don't expect we'll have any generated armies after this release (aside from underground animal people if it brings some of them out). I don't think that'll have a broadly noticeable effect yet, though it will impact equipment and who comes in subtle ways at this point.
Will Bamboo "grass" turn to Bamboo "Trees"? Also will we have multitile "Bushes" and "Hedges" like ribes, Hazelnuts or Hibiscus?
Will certain Trees/bushes/plants breed by other means then fruits and seeds? Like over the Rhizome by vegetative reproduction (natures own cloning) etc.?
There's more of a framework for that now, but I don't think I'm going to get further into it this time around. There are memory/processor issues with allowing z-multi-tile independent vegetation on every x/y tile. It can't use the full vegetation framework, so it can't be tracked as closely. Reproduction is still all abstract.
Will tree roots be multi-tile, and if so, will they remain and decay after the tree is chopped down?
They are, and they'll still be there. I don't know if they'll decay in any particular way at this point. That doesn't mean they can't be cleared.
Will you be making underground trees and mushrooms multi-tile as well, and if so how are you dealing with cavern space requirements for these?
Yeah. I'm not sure what you mean about cavern space requirements.
now there are armies and nightcreatures are traveling through the overworld, will this mean the megabeasts will leave their lair this or next update?
I'm not sure when the megabeasts will be activated. I haven't done it yet. Having the night creatures roaming around outside their lairs seems to bring it closer, but that behavior seems a little too flippant for the bigger ones.
Will climbing require special equipment, like grappling hooks, spiked shoes, picks and so on?
With this new climbing mechanics, will we see those high cliffs back again?
Will there be a difference between climbing rough and smooth walls? If some invaders become capable of climbing into an aboveground fortress, will smoothing the walls (or constructing smooth walls) prevent them from doing this?
Now that climbing is going in, will we be getting ladders?
Will creatures in Dwarf Fortress mode and/or Adventure mode be able to jump across one-tile gaps at the same z-level?
With the multitile trees and jumping implemented, does this mean that there will be creatures that live in trees. and will it be possible to sneak pasts guards through trees??
Will entities be able to jump over more than one tile?
Will you need some distance to run before jumping?
Will you be able to jump into somebody as offensive maneuver?
When climbing, will you be able to jump vertically to another adjacent (opposite) wall and try to snag to it?
Will holding on ledges be part of climbing-jumping.
Will climbing introduce ladders and ropes for climbing?
Will jumping now be reflected as a skill? Will fortmode dwarves jump, and under what circumstances?
Will climbing be implemented in any other respect, or will it just be restricted to trees for now? What, if any, mechanical differences will there be between climbing and going up a flight of stairs/walking?
How does combat while climbing work? (Can we throw things while climbing?)
Can we sneak while climbing?
Which brings up my question- Will Climbing be enabled in Fortress mode? And will there be critters that live in the trees, aside from elves?
Do certain animals climb trees now, too? Birds' nests, etc? Will we see a [CLIMBER] tag in this release?
With the new climbing mechanics are we going to see cave spiders climbing cave walls?
We aren't there yet, so I can't be really specific about climbing and jumping. Jumps should be able to pass over gaps on the ground, and running should matter (especially now that we have sprinting). Being able to move through tiles with a jump will force us to deal with creature collisions, but I'm not sure what that's going to mean. Dunno about fort mode jumping -- pathing is as usual the problem there with any movement changes, so we have to be careful. I think jumping makes sense as a skill... if the Olympics are any indication, there should be several skills, he he he.
I think you should be able to attempt to climb most things. Climbing smooth walls equipment free as a human seems unlikely. Adding equipment at this point is one of those tempting things. Who knows what will end up happening... perhaps nothing, perhaps another obscenity. Climbing up something is different from going up a flight of stairs because when you are climbing you can fall and break something. Not sure about sneaking while climbing -- you can sneak in the sense of avoiding detection from vision arcs and moving silently, but not sure about lowering your profile. Even less sure about combat and the exact mechanics of climbing -- does it track exactly holds and prevent attacks with those? Unsure. Also unsure about climbing animals, though they are obviously cool. Fort mode climbing has same problems as jumping -- pathing issues and how they are resolved. Jumping vertically and ledge hanging seems fine -- I don't know much about rock climbing and how long you can support your weight on a ledge with a crappy hold though. I'd like to have high cliffs back, and climbing was the main obstacle there, but I need to continue to be a bit careful there. The old situation with cliffs everywhere was still bad -- might have to wait for the 3D veins and landforms and things. I like ladders and ropes... I don't even recollect at this point (burned out as I am since this is the last answer I'm typing up) what the block was for getting rope ladders in before, so I'll have to see what happens there.
ToadyOne, how much, if at all, do you enjoy us trying to soak as much information as possible from your Dev Logs?
I think it's cool when people are enjoying things.
Will the update to trees also include dangerous plants like giant fly-traps and strangling vines?
I doubt I'll get to anything like that this time around, but at least we've got a framework now that'll allow specific tiles dedicated to that kind of thing. It only gets us part of the way there though.
When you say which branches are safe to climb on and which aren't does this take size into account?
That should make it in, but it'll still be a very coarse setup, since there are only levels of branch tile.
Do all trees grow the same way?
Nope. There are various parameters in the raws.
I love how you do this, it gives us nice dense forrests if done right but i wonder if you include the Physical aspects in your growth algorithm. Given that you have only one set of Rules (atm) i could imagine that respecting stuff like the Tensile and compressive Strength or the solid density of the different wood-materials makes still a difference in the outcome (for example if certain breaking points are reached).
There are parameters in the raws, but I think it would be a rabbit hole to look at the specific numbers and try to form an algorithm around that.
Will Building be able to be constructed on Trees at all, if so, what building under what circumstances.
The elves will likely have some things up there, and I assume that'll carry over.
How will you balance the wood industry now that we have bigger trees?
It remains to be seen, since I haven't cut down any trees yet. There will be more wood with each tree, but trees will grow more slowly now. That might be enough, but we'll have to run out some forts for a period of time to see if it swings too far one way or the other.
When you say "it can all be changed in the raws" do you mean the graphical representation only or the growth parameters as well?
How much control over plant growth will we have in the raws? Will it be fairly basic, as now, or will we have things like MAX_HEIGHT, CANOPY_SHAPE and LIMB_DENSITY?
The growth parameters are all in there.
When you say it can all be changed in the raws, does that extend to the tiles that are used to represent certain parts of the tree? I'm down with what you've got there mostly, but the "1/4"s are distracting, being readable numbers thrown into the mix like that. I think it's because number tiles have been otherwise reserved for fluid levels.
Yeah, you can change each of the tiles. The d_init file has the defaults, and the raws have any special tiles for specific trees. For the 1/4th you'd probably just need to change the d_init one.
Do trees grow in increments, or all at once? If the former, how many seasons/years (on average) would it take for a tree to grow to its full height from a sapling?
The trees grow in increments, though the jumps in trunk width are by necessity pretty sudden. I still have to look up data on tree growth rates, but I'm planning on keeping it as realistic as I can, then seeing how annoying logging is, and revamping one thing or another from there.
Will, similar to grazers, certain animals require leaves and/or fruits now?
Not now, but having trees like this should help us get there.
How does the tree "decide" which tiles to use when its trunk increases from 1x1 to 2x2?
It's random, based on what is available, but when it goes to 3x3 it tries to recenter back on where it was, so the tree doesn't migrate too much.
Do you regenerate the whole tree/branch when it grows?
How will you decide when a tree dies, due to damage? Do we need to cut out a whole layer of trunk? Perhaps only ring it? What about 1 tile removal of a 3x3 trunk, either in the center or at the edge? what about root damage, how much is enough to kill a tree?
Toady, is partial cutting (pollarding) of a tree going to be possible? If tree-topping of this sort is possible, will the tree continue to grow?
With trees presumably taking longer to grow will things like coppicing and other tree management be possible? Also what impact will this have on tree growth?
In what ways do you plan on players being able to influence tree growth? Bonsai trees being an extreme example of what I mean.
It grows out tile by tile, in general, so it shouldn't do too-weird things with existing branches. Trees don't need any particular tiles at this point to stay alive, and I'm not sure in the end what I'll get to there.
I haven't done the interface for cutting trees yet, so it remains to be seen exactly what'll happen -- if a tree doesn't die when its upper tiles are removed, and you can partially mine out wood in a tree, then coppicing would basically have happened (since the tree would grow back tile by tile from the trunk).
Aside from boxing in trees so they'd kind of grow around obstructions, I don't have specific plans for influencing tree growth at this point.
Will foliage be burnable? If so, will you fix fire to spread across z-levels?
It'll burn, and I'm sure it'll be fun to make it look cool.
what are the ideas for the new kobold sites?
I don't want to commit to anything on those yet, other than something being done. We have various ideas, but we still need to specify some of them, and some of them probably require mechanics I don't want to burn too much time on (as has been done with the trees for elves).
What happens if a tree is going to grow outwards or upwards, but something is in the way, be it a building or construction or creature?
The way it is set up now, trees will just go around. I haven't done anything with slow pushing/deforming or anything like that -- we don't have fine gradations to work with.
Will trees be affected by the wind/weather/storms?
Not at this point. We need to do more with wind first. Then I'll be able to simulate the annoying power-killing wind storms we get all the time out here.
What happens when you cause the part of the ground the tree rests upon to cave in? Does the tree remain intact?
You mean like floating in space? The trees are tied to the map, so they won't float.
are the proportions of the trees weve seen so far already the desired picture or are tile dimensions yet to be applied for the trees to be what you want them to be?
It'll depend on the kind of tree more than what you saw there.
Once fruites are added, possibly for a later update, will we ever get quests to get frutes from good or evil regions? " I require a putrid apple from the swamps of longbottoms, will you acquire it for me? "
It's a reasonable enough thing. There's also the whole alchemy/herbalism-type questions, where people including yourself mix all kinds of creepy stuff for nefarious purposes. We'll have to see how it plays out. Certainly having various flowers and leaves adds a draw there, programming-wise, but there's only so much time for detours.
can growths drop down on their own or must they always be harvested manually?
Growths will drop on their own, but due to the amount, it'll store them as a ground contaminant somewhat like blood. If it's a growth like fruit, there'll need to be a step from there to collect them for eating, perhaps, and I haven't thought about how that might work yet.
Toady, now that we have trees and Leaves, flowers and such will they be part of the of the "Art". I could see elves using many floral ornaments on theyr items.
It's a reasonable thing, but I haven't figured out exactly how far I'm going to go with the flower items that now exist. Elf sites are coming very soon, so we'll see!
Do leaves count as items? Are they collectable or will they fall to the ground as a 'contaminant' during autumn?
Will/How is tree-related debris handled? Fallen branches, falling leaves/flowers, falling fruit, etc.
Can trees die of natural causes?
I'm working through that now, and they'll be stored as a contaminant that can be picked up in part and at that point turned into a leaf item. The leaf item already exists (from quarry leaves), so it shouldn't be a problem. A leaf picked directly from a tree will also become an item (rather than a body contaminant), unless you've done something bizarre like making a tree with liquid leaves.
I'm not sure about natural causes. It knows the ages of trees, but there aren't any diseases.
Do the fruits contain seeds of the trees? Will we see seeds for all plants now? Do new plants only grow where seeds are? Will animals disperse seeds?
Does tree growth depend on fertility of the ground? Can we influence that with fertilizer? Possibly order trees to be grown somewhere specific by planting a seed?
I haven't done the seeds yet. I'm not sure exactly what'll happen there. It would be really cool to be able to plant trees. We'll see. I haven't messed with the soil.
Will elves again send their emmissaries to request logging limits?
As far as I know, that's just a garden variety bug. I'm not sure when it'll be fixed, or if I'll just wait for general diplomacy improvements.
How will dwarves handle harvesting things from trees? Grabbing everything from every tree on the map would be absurd, but individually designating every item would be annoying as well. Is there going to be a way to flag trees for continuous harvesting?
I haven't decided yet. Since trees should last a while when you aren't cutting them down (the duration of the fort, pretty much), something permanent like an activity zone would probably work as well as anything, though I'm not 100% sure that's the best way to do it. It does give you control over where things happen, and it lasts.
Will a given species of tree grow exactly the same in all conditions?
Will the recent volume of rain have any impact on plant growth?
Are we going to see vines at some point? It would be cool to have a climbable plant that grows onto surfaces, like walls and cliff faces. Such a plant could be used like ladders by the elves...
Altitude might have an impact, but I haven't gotten around to a lot of variation within one species. I like vines, but we aren't there yet.
So, with fruit-bearing trees, does this mean that we'll get a slew of new ciders to make?
And will there be some underground fruit trees? (If so, then put me down for a barrel of stalacterines.)
Indeed, with each new fruit that goes in, dwarves lead richer lives. We haven't made final decisions about the underground trees. Perhaps it wouldn't be appropriate to share them when we do.
What will be the limits on non-fruit tree growths? Are liquids possible? Containers with objects in them? Animate things, Like elves?
Any simple item can be made. So you can't make things within things or creatures.
Are we going to have more trees that are tied to savage/good/evil/calm regions, and if we are, are they going to "act" in strange ways? Will glumprong tree fruit be poisonous, or something like that? Walking trees?
I'm not doing anything special this time around. The basic trees are complicated enough to set up for now.
With seasonal flowers, will we have the option of planting flowerbeds?
Do seasonal flowers mean that aboveground plants will no longer be year-round crops?
You don't have any extra control over grass right now, and I haven't really fiddled with farming. The effects on standard farming would potentially be wide-ranging, but I'm not quite sure how much I want to jump into that right now.
Are you going to be laying any groundwork towards implementing the removal (as stated above) of good/evil flora regions before the next release?
Will we be able to pick flowers for various purposes? For example, certain flowers could be used to produce dyes, while others, like nasturtiums, could be used for food.
Also, will flowers produce fruit, seed pods, or equivalent features?
There isn't a reason to do it yet, anywhere, but an adventurer can. We might see more action over time. There will be pickable yummy fruit and so on in this release.
After this release, how many release cycles away are we from seeing taverns and inns? In the last DF Talk I think you mentioned that it had been moving up the priority list.
I think it would be unwise to make guesses about the release after this one, especially since I just took down a multi-release schedule. It's not possible to say.
Is there a possibility that some fruits will rot on the trees, without falling until after they've rotted, or possibly just rotting away? If fruits rot on the trees, how long will it take for them to rot?
Will unharvested fruits attract vermin such as flies?
Will bees make different types of honey now, now that we have flowers?
It can go either way, though things tend to be more uniform depending on where you set your parameters for a given species of tree. I don't think there'll be flies for the stuff that falls on the ground, since there'll probably be too much of it. It would need to be reasonably rare to keep things under control.
I haven't changed anything with bees.
Will all plants (regardless of whether they are multi-tile, single-tile grass, flowers, deciduous, conifers, or whatever) have unified raw parameters/tokens/structure? Like all creatures have? So you could - hypothetically - just change a few parameters in the raws and for example make a single tile grass into a multi-tile flowering plant? Or are there fundamental differences between the raws of different plants?
It's the same material-wise and in various other parameters, though there is still a type variable between trees and grass and shrubs, and trees are the only ones where multi-tile information is used. The main thing that needs to be reconciled for a full unification is how dwarf mode sees trees as objects for designations, and how extra information needs to be stored for trees that for technical reasons cannot be stored for every tile (so multi-tile grass presents a challenge, memory/processor-wise).
1: What's your stance on taking a creative break?
2: When would you take one? Would it be tied to donations?
3: If money permits, would you travel a bit around the world in order to improve your imagination?
4: When would the next DF meetup be?
5: Besides dwarven mountain homes and kobolds, is there anything left before release?
6: How many duplicates of questions would there have to be for you to intervene?
7: How is the fps rate going so far?
I'm not quite sure what you have in mind. I've gone off places for vacation for a few days or more in the past. I think it's more important to keep working, for the most part, since there is a lot to do. There aren't any meetup plans at this point.
There are plenty of things left for this release. I haven't done any of the birth/marriage/succession/reclaim stuff yet. That's pretty big.
Intervene like yelling at people? It doesn't matter that much. I just grouped them together. Some of the groupings are quite large (record setting grouping size!), and if the groupings start to get larger and larger, something would need to be devised, but we're still okay.
FPS is unchanged so far in dwarf mode, and adv mode travel seems fine as well. The creation of trees and all that doesn't seem to make embark take perceptibly longer, but I'll still have to try out a large forest and see if it gets tangled anywhere and optimize as necessary. Same goes for wandering through an adv mode forest.
Will tree roots play a role in Fortress mode as a usable material? Will they continue to grow in soil layers during game play?
They will continue to grow. Not sure they'll be usable for anything. Maybe the really big ones can pass for wood, but I don't really know.