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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1123689 times)

misko27

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4305 on: November 13, 2012, 06:17:50 pm »

Who else is absolutey stoked (For extreme lack of a better term) at these changes? I mean damn! This is awesome!

Since theres now a whole window for nobility and holdings, is it going to remain limited to showing dwarven sites, or will it eventually include the loose allances of the human lords, or what now appear to be goblin and elven sprawl?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 06:25:35 pm by misko27 »
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EmeraldWind

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4306 on: November 13, 2012, 06:30:29 pm »

You mentioned in your last DFTalk that hill dwarf settlements would lead to a revamp of how migrant waves work. Now that they're finally going in seven months later, do you have any more elaborated ideas for what that will look like?

Toady mentioned this on his Nov 3rd Update:
Quote
We might not get to the involvement of hill dwarves and deeper sites with your fortress during play for this release, since that's another involved addition, but we will be laying the groundwork for that here.

I would assume from this he has some idea how he wants it to work, but don't expect for a reform on migrants just yet.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 06:33:05 pm by EmeraldWind »
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Valtam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4307 on: November 13, 2012, 06:41:50 pm »

Who else is absolutey stoked (For extreme lack of a better term) at these changes? I mean damn! This is awesome!

The next release isn't out yet and I already feel that the current version is pretty outdated.

Now that we're going to find fortress dwarves in their natural habitat, without telling us about how far from their home they are, are there plans to fit or expand their interaction choices with adventurers? Maybe trading with brokers or request healing from medicine laborers?

I don't think the broker trading could be exploited (as some may have suggested) by bringing insane goods with the adventurer, all for free, and then reclaiming inmediately. I hope the question doesn't sound suggestion-y, but would bring some extra value to fortress visiting.
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my first quest was to seige a nemacrcors tower i killed 3 nemacrcors the got killed by a zombie fly.
How on earth did you manage to do that twice?

Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4308 on: November 13, 2012, 06:47:36 pm »

Speaking of interactions, as a modder, are there going to be any expansions of old modding with this release? More tokens for CE_ADD_TAG, more syndrome types, more usage hints, more counter triggers, anything like that? Or is it just a straight shot to expansion and activation of the world?

Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4309 on: November 14, 2012, 05:13:11 am »

Thanks to MrWiggles, Talvieno, Knight Otu, King Mir, arkhometha, Footkerchief, Eric Blank, Japa, Putnam, Vattic, EmeraldWind, Askot Bokbondeler, HiEv, Cruxador, BradUffner, rhesusmacabre, Mr S and anybody I missed for helping to answer questions people had.  As usual, some questions were not included for various reasons (answered by people, too off-topic and suggestiony, etc.).


Quote
Quote from: Heph
When you are done with trees for this release can you provide a example raw-file?
Quote from: CaptainArchmage
When you mention orchards using the products from the old tree raws, do you mean no further trees have been added in or are the raw structures the same? If the raw structures for trees have changed, would you be able to present an example for us? Has the elven method for producing items been elaborated on in this release, i.e. will we see trees growing furniture? Will forest vegetation such as leaves burn?

Yeah.  I think I'm going to hold off a bit longer though, while I let some more things shake out (in particular the underground trees).  Many new trees, and the elves do interesting things.  I haven't updated forest fires but it should be pretty impressive before the release, in terms of visual tree annihilation.

Quote
Quote from: davros
Is there any chance of you posting screenshots of goblin towers, elf cities, and so on?
Quote from: Sizik
Will you provide pictures of the new sites, or will that be a surprise for release?

I've posted what I feel comfortable posting.  A lot of it is too smeared out vertically for an interesting image, and there is some stuff I want to hold back.

Quote from: adasdad
will we get the ability in adventure mode to "mix" items without defining a specific reaction, for instance dipping weapons into vials of something, or poisoning food?

I don't have a timeline for it.  The contaminant system makes it reasonable enough to do, and it would happen when it's important to do something like that and we have more dipping candidates around in adv mode.

Quote from: DNK
So, if you're going to include more microhabitats (like undercanopy grasses and fields, etc), will that include distinctions between things like:

- riparian zones (river banks) and the surrounding areas
- "old growth" forests and "new growth" areas within them where a tree "recently" fell or something that caused a disturbance [obviously could just be applied randomly rather than fully modeled, though adjusted for values like soil depth (less = more treefalls), wind (planned: higher = more falls), fire likelihood (would cause much larger "new growth" areas), etc, at least during initial embark level generation]. This would require plants to have a variable describing them on a spectrum between "rapid spreader" and "slow, long-term dominant species". Those with values closer to the former would be far more likely to appear after a recent fall (or clearing by dwarves in realtime) and grow fast at first, but as they grow larger, their rate of growth would slow, and the slow-growing long-term species would eventually overtake them (usually, but not always, of course).
- flora based on underlying soil/rock (for example, something occuring over a bauxite deposit would have high acidity and corresponding changes in plant makeup). This would require building values into each plant for acidity/base tolerance and adjusting likelihood of existence by that.
- other biological distinctions within general habitats/biomes I can't think of right now

I'm interested in doing more with habitats, but don't really have a lot of the basic necessities yet, except maybe for the river banks (where we do have the simple wet/dry distinction and nothing else).

Quote from: hermes
Since watchtowers and elven treehouses put dangerous entities up high, have you considered any adventure mode UI changes to make their visibility more... natural?  e.g. the z+1 view auto-adjusting to the top of the tower to simulate the adventurer glancing up.

It has been a long time since I've tested it, but there's an init option to make the Z windows trigger when a creature is there, rather than all the time.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
There were plans to do animal-powered vehicles sometime. Is there any chance of that going in with this release?

Nope, I don't think there's a chance of that now.  We've already got enough on the plate.

Quote from: Sizik
He means will the tree stay tree-shaped, as opposed to collapsing into a mound of wood like the current cave in system does.

The tree tiles wouldn't look good if they survived the collapse, except perhaps for the generic branches.  I haven't done dwarf mode tree stuff yet, but I'll deal with the wood production angle of it at that time.

Quote from: Inarius
What about underground trees ? Will they behave like surface trees ? Will they grow be limited to the size of the cavern, will the roots of the 3rd level of cavern in contact with the magma see ?

I wouldn't expect super-roots, but they will grow through the space they fit in.  For some of the tunnelly areas we might not have anything.  I've saved finalizing things like tower-caps for deep sites, and we are almost there.

Quote from: Cobbler89
Is it/will it be possible to mine under a tree without cutting through most of the roots, say, to create a little cave where the ground[above]/ceiling[below] appears to be held together by the tree roots (even though in actuality it stays simply because DF's cave-in physics for the ground itself currently don't kick in unless there is no physical connection)?

The tree roots aren't like that in general, with giant taproot pillars, though you could have a ceiling made of tangled roots.

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Quote from: iceball3
Will there be a (possibly welcome) dissonance between character reaction time and movement/other action cost? For instance, if I break into a full out sprint, I would say move two tiles instead of one in the same turnframe, thus, possibly overshooting a target I want to rush by while swinging at.
Quote from: kulik
How will the coming running mechanic work with charging during combat? I mean, will there be a difference when charging somebody while in full run? Could a lighter combatant take down heavier stationary opponent if he charges him at full running speed?

It doesn't spoil your turn now.  The old charges made things like that happen depending on skill rolls, so when I finish up attacks in the new system it could happen, but I'm not sure how it'll end up.  Charging/lunging attacks still need to be finalized.

Quote from: Kogan Loloklam
Will you gain personal enemies that will hunt you to the ends of the earth for killing their parent years ago?

This time it's more oriented toward civ-level trouble you are causing for armies and so on, but it should work for things like that -- the hunting itself is at the personal level, but it's still on entity orders.

Quote from: Scandles
Will the Dwarfs and other races have bush-clearing abilities, asides from harvesting and trampling, e.g a machete, i.e hacking the vegetative things hindering their progress into little bits?

I haven't gotten to any movement speed issues.  The more those matter, the more likely it is you'd have the ability to deal with it.

Quote from: Owlbread
Will there be a special place in future Dwarven culture/society for the original 7 Dwarves? I have noticed some players put great value on their original 7, and become emotionally attached to them. Will the AI dwarves also revere them in some way?

Starting scenarios are starting to get quite a bit piled on them (as the caravan arc did in the past), but it's the sort of thing I wouldn't want to think about too hard until we know why the dwarves left on their journey in the first place.

Quote from: King Mir
Will single tile trees still be possible?
Some plants may be suitable to be treated as impassible single tiles, as trees are now.

Right now they stay saplings if they have no room to grow.

Quote from: Vattic
Will we get other things growing in the trees like lichen? Trees act as a habitat for all sorts of other animals (like elves of course).

Vines and so on as well...  you can't have a game that has no vines in the jungle, but DF is such a game right now.  Not sure when we'll get to it though.

Quote from: iceball3
Going back to the combat mind portion of this update, will we have civilian dwarves in fortresses occasionally not only fighting back, but making sure an enemy is sufficiently incapacitated if they can, out of retaliatory anger?
Will dwarves always have the heart, militia or not, to finish off an unconscious/sufficiently helpless/fleeing enemy after getting the upper hand in what has developed into the 'lethal combat' range?

Yeah, the responses aren't going to be uniform, but I'm not sure that they'll change vs. unconscious opponents -- the main thing there was to go on to conscious targets.  They need a new check for conscious targets to do that part right.

Quote from: mastahcheese
When salt is implemented, will evaporation of salt water leave salt behind as a by-product?

It seems like it should, and that it doesn't take overly modern processes, but we'd have to be careful with setting that up properly, since there is a lot of sea water and we have to make sure it doesn't overload the system at random when you are walking along the ocean.

Quote from: tahujdt
With the change in climbing pathing, will we see improvement in the pathing of flying/swimming creatures?

Nope.  Those problems are different, and they aren't easy to fix.

Quote from: stolide
Will acorns become oak trees?

It doesn't currently work that way.  It would be fun to get there eventually.

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Quote from: dhokarena56
Is there anything useful we can do with dead leaves? They probably don't burn hot enough to be used as a fuel, but maybe fertilizer?
Quote from: Trif
Will we be able to use rotting leaves as a fertilizer?
Quote from: Aseaheru
will leaves have any use? such as animal fodder or for turning into ash or fertaliser?

They aren't currently useful.

Quote from: Heph
On itemclouds: Is it possible to use that type as material breath? I would like to see shrapnel-"clouds" from say a giant porcupine instead of a single spine.

It isn't currently in as a possible interaction material emission token, but I think it's a good time to keep that flow involved with the material emission system, so it'll work before the release.

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Quote from: Cruxador
Are you planning to do (chestnut roasting)?
Quote from: Chthonic
When, not if, this is added will we be able to roast nuts in fortress mode?

There's the whole "edible_cooked" tag, and cooked foods in general, but I don't have particular plans.

Quote from: Chthonic
How long does leaf-clutter last on the ground?  I'm a little OCD about fortress cleanliness and contaminants (the cleaning bug drives me crazy right now)--will dwarves get rakes?

I'm not sure I'll ever have rakes for dwarves...  tending to the cleanliness of the outdoors seems very out of character.  The leaf litter clears up in spring after it falls through autumn and sits in winter right now.

Quote from: Weirdsound
how much fruit will there be? Will there be enough to have a major impact on how we play the food supply game?

You can't currently plant fruit trees, but if you embark with lots of them around, it'll matter quite a bit.  I haven't gotten to that designation yet, so I'm not sure how it'll play out.

Quote from: GrizzlyAdamz
Can you be killed by a falling coconut?
or is it handled by the contaminant spray mechanic?

Right now it lies between item clouds and items as a non-cloud item spatter.  It's sort of an irritating problem, since you don't want to allocate too many items, but coconuts aren't overly numerous either.

Quote from: Putnam
Are there any plans for anything new in the way of the data/speech files?

As far as I remember, that's still all the same.

Quote from: Aseaheru
will there be any variations in a language? i.e. a civ sits alone for a thousand years, and its version of, say, dwarven is almost incomprehensible to a dwarf elsewhere.

We've mentioned it a bit here and there -- I have an interest in that kind of thing, but I haven't really started work on languages at all yet.

Quote from: burn_heal
It has always seemed to me that Fortress mode is the more popular format in the game. With a lot of the focus of current development being on adventure mode, are you worried that more fort-oriented players will miss out on a lot of the new features?

It all ties together, so I'm happy with what everybody will end up getting.  Everything's not for everybody, but things like the site maps are eventually going to matter for most people.

Quote from: Helgoland
With the combat/movement speed split, will we be seeing mounts in the next release? If yes, both for fort and adventure modde or just for one of the two?

I think somebody mentioned that dwarf mode mounts for dwarves aren't really a high priority.  I'd like to do adventure mode mounts, and the combat/move speed split was the main barrier, but it might be an overreach to do adv mode mounts now.

Quote from: BradUffner
Will acceleration and jump height be affected by equipment and other inventory?

Acceleration for running?  Equipment affects your max speed, and I think it's done by percentages after some point so your running acceleratio would be affected as well.  Jump height isn't really an issue, since a vertical jump higher than touching the next tile up isn't part of the game right now, since that would be quite a jump.  When I get to other critters needing special jumps, we might think more about equipment.

Quote from: Chronas
In regards to speed loss when changing direction, will it be more time efficient pulling a turning circle to make a full 180 or even to turn 90 degrees vs. losing sprint to change direction instantaneously?

Is the sprinting speed of a creature dependent on its innate speed or a separate variable?

Do different creatures have different turning circles? For example some losing speed at a mere 45 degree angle or others capable of maintaining speed in any direction.
If yes, is that also a separate variable or do faster creatures turn slower?

IIRC you mentioned that moving at a faster speed increases the force of your blows (like a non-placeholder charge). Is the reverse also true? Will running/jumping into a moving minecart head-on (or even obtusely) combine the force?

It's hard to say without trying it out or running the numbers, since you lose 4 turns when you pull the circle, but you are at full speed when you hit the start line, where the person that turns around gets to start at the start line but has to get up to full speed.

Sprint speed is currently a fixed percentage of the speed, but it should probably be separate.  The turning circle is also set at this point.

I don't understand the part about the minecart.  Combine which forces?

Quote from: Old Bones
In adventure mode if you jump from somewhere onto a climbable surface, will you catch yourself?

You can, yeah.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
Will Dwarf Fortress try to deliberately make navigable climbing paths up trees and through the tree-tops outside of forest retreats?

I don't understand this one -- you mean to make the elf sites accessible by climbing without blocking things off?  The elves exercise quite a bit of power over the shapes of their trees.

Quote from: Yoink
Toady, if this is to be the release with non-lethal combat, do you have any plans for 'sheath' items for weapons? Since drawing a weapon will escalate a fight to lethal stakes.

I haven't done the items yet.  For now I've just added a fast "strap" option that lets you put your items away and take them out with one keypress.  Later it'll be tied to objects.

Quote from: Quatch
Since adventure mode is turn based and things only move/act every time you give input, what does jumping look like? Does the simulation run until you regain footing?

Unless you get a reaction moment or something like that, it works like when you get knocked back -- you become a projectile for a time and have to wait until you regain your footing.

Quote from: Charey Wolf
What happens if you jump off a tree and then land in the water?

It's the same as falling in the water, so there's some slowing effect before you impact on the hard part.

Quote from: CountAlex
When and whether leather armor and clothes will have different durability depending on basic hide they made of? I. e. chicken leather armor must be not much better then paper when dragon leather armor should be hard as kevlar flak jacket.

It hasn't been a high priority, but I suppose it can already be done outside of vanilla.  I'm theoretically for differentiating things, but I'm not really sure where I'd get data for non-fantasy creatures.  Dragon skin should likely be special, since it usually is.

Quote from: LoSboccacc
so are we getting climbing invaders?

It's not likely to happen for this release, although I'm enthusiastic about having that kind of churning overrun feeling happen to you eventually.  There's a chance some part of it'll happen automatically when I look back at climbing AI before the release, but it's a coin toss.

Quote from: DG
Please clarify this, Toady. By smooth walls do you only mean natural walls that have been smoothed by an engraver (the impression I'm getting) or also walls constructed of blocks instead of rough stone/logs/bars?

I haven't distinguished the constructions yet, but I'm for making block walls much harder to climb, both from a game and realism perspective.

Quote from: GrizzlyAdamz
How is climbing ability determined? Will there be a skill check, an attribute (agility) check, or both/neither? Will a dwarf child be able to scale a thousand-foot cliff or will it be a perilous climb, rolling ability checks every tick?

-edit
hehe, while I'm at it, a question for extraneous skills, (thinking of morul)
With jumping implemented, especially when factoring in water, will there be a diving skill?

Still no news here.  I moved on before I resolved it to my satisfaction, but it'll still be handled before I'm done.  There will be a skill of some kind, and all of the skill checks involve multiple attributes.

Quote
Quote from: thvaz
We will have creatures like spiders climbing on the ceilings?
Quote from: CaptainArchmage
With the inclusion of climbing, will invaders now be able to scale walls?

Will creatures be able to grapple a ceiling?

Will creatures be able to climb up and over raised drawbridges?
Quote from: Vattic
Will we be able to specify that some creatures can climb smooth and ice walls?

I haven't done super-climbers yet that can use smoother surfaces, but it'll have to go in sometime.  Climbing specifies the surface that is held, and this currently includes being able to hang in an air tile while you hold on to a tile above (like tree branches), so ceiling walking can use the floor/wall type above in the same way.  I haven't addressed buildings like raised drawbridges or doors.

Quote from: Maxmurder
Will we get reaction moments when jumping/landing on a creature?
ie. the player jumps out of a tree undetected onto a nearby goblin. As he lands he gets a reaction moment to attack the goblin with a weapon doing extra damage.

Will elves get a buff to movement/fighting while climbing in trees?
I could see a very deadly strategy of climbing up a tree then picking off people with a bow/crossbow as they try to climb after you.

I don't have such moments now, but the system is really bare right now.

Some creatures have natural skills, and I'm not sure how that's going to work with civilized creatures.  We've tended to rely on attributes for that, and still have learned skills from nothing, but I imagine it'll change at some point.  I expect elf atts will help them now, and they might have some kind of talent for climbing later, so that they end up learning it better and faster, which is kind of like having a specialized attribute.  Not quite sure how it'll turn out.

Quote
Quote from: Neonivek
Toady will you be adding any supernatural trees with Fruit in this release or only real life equivilants?
Quote from: Tenebrais
Will fruit trees be real fruits, like the other trees, or made up, like the other crops? And does either answer affect your future plans for handling plants?

Probably all real fruit this time.

Quote from: Quietust
Back in the old 2D versions, the "cliff face" was covered with a layer of "damaged" stone which couldn't be smoothed but could be dug away more quickly.
Will damaged stone be easier to climb? And if so, might the landscape generation be adjusted to create these again?

The whole idea of cliff faces and canyons is still waiting.  Climbing was the major obstacle to putting those back in the game, but we're still rampy right now.  I agree that most future cliff faces should use the damaged picture and be easier to climb.

Quote from: Alu
What are your plans on climbing gear? Maybe with the equipment, one could even climb ice walls.

Don't have anything specific at this point.

Quote from: MasterMorality
Will unrooted things on tiles be subject to velocity and physics from a flying creature that latches onto them mid-flight?
Ie: if a dwarf hurtles out of a minecart over a chasm, and grabs a goblin on a ledge, by the arm, mid-flight as it goes past, will the dwarf pull the goblin along with him until he stops? Or will the goblin act as if it were an entrenched pillar of lead, anchoring and wrenching the Dwarf to a sudden halt?

We don't have that kind of interaction yet, if I remember how it works.  It would be weird if a gnome could arrest a giant's flight by initiating a wrestle on it.

Quote from: Torchy
Will Goblin settlements have shops?

Even though you can't play as a Goblin by default, and most of the time they'll be hostile to you automatically, it seems like it would make sense for them to have some kind of markets present at least for their own use. (Yes, I know the NPCs don't really *use* them) Especially if they're going to have civilian professions of the type that would produce goods for shops.

They don't have markets as it stands.  I'm not sure they ever will, and we haven't really thought carefully about how they conceive of trade (when they want something that they can't just take).  It might make them less likely to aggregate in a single location, but I'm not sure.  Part of it depends on how they start to relate to human civs that have gone sour (like the ones that have demon leaders masquerading as gods).

Quote from: Escapism
Will combat advantages (both projectile and hand-to-hand) relating to z-levels be done in this release?

There's more reason to put it in than there was before, but I haven't done anything with it yet.

Quote from: AfterShave
When jumping, how high up can you get? If you manage one z level, does this mean you can grab hold of the roof of a 2 story building and climb up?

You can't jump up into another tile.  As your example points out, that would be quite a high jump.

Quote from: Tov01
How extensive will Goblin slavery be in the next release? I know that kidnapped children are in, but is anything else planned?

There are slaves on the sites at times, though humans seem just as good at it, if not better, since they tend to leave more people alive.  I haven't particularly addressed this yet, though we are still quite likely to do more with site occupation before the release.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
Will we be able to get orchards in Dwarf Fortress Mode too?

I haven't done tree planting yet, and I'm not sure how that'll end up.  It should be possible to grab things from existing trees.

Quote from: Owlbread
At present, Dwarven society is quite a model of gender equality. Will factors such as Dwarven women's place in society be addressed at a later point in DF's development? Is it your intention to keep their society equal, or should there be differences that are more in keeping with traditional western european medieval society? The reason that I ask this is that some of us were having a debate over whether a Dwarven language should be gendered (on the basis of personal pronouns) because that would conflict with the gender equality that is apparently present in Dwarven culture.

I expect the society will remain equal.

Quote from: Helgoland
Can you say a bit more about what sort of flavour each of the races will have? E.g. humans being similar to ancient Greece or Rome or to medieval times or the Renaissance or whatever; I hope you know what I mean

I'm trying not to do it like that -- ideally humans will end up with enough parameters to end up like various different civilizations, and the other civilizations will probably become more alien to humans as humans take up more of the slack.  Dwarves are an exception to that since they should keep some familiarity to be easily playable, and they should continue to exemplify the highs and lows of human craft and inebriation.

Quote from: Tov01
Will the fruits develop from flowers, or will they just appear on the tree? And if flowers do mature into fruit, will the flowers of non-fruiting trees produce seed pods or whatever. (Note that I am NOT asking if we'll have non-abstract plant reproduction. I know we won't. But this would be a step in that direction.)

Also, another goblin question I probably should have asked earlier.

Does it fit in your view of goblins for them to have farms to feed their livestock (once feed is implemented, of course), and perhaps their slaves (as in, feeding slaves the same gruel they feed their animals)?

Things currently go through a cycle over a year.  It doesn't track individual flowers turning into individual fruit, but since they occur in turn, the effect is the same.  I've put in a rough cycle for each of the trees, so you can end up with some spathe type critters and so on.

Nope, don't like farms.  I don't expect goblin animals to need feed in the end.  They can eat rats out in the swamp.  The kidnapees need to be fed.  I'm not sure they track that right now, since they are historical figures and we softened their need to feed after some problems elsewhere.  It might rely on butchered beakdogs or trade later.

Quote from: Vattic
Assuming we get multi-tile mushrooms are we likely to see any nice shelf ones? Having some big enough to walk on or even build on would be cool.

I have a soft spot for shelf fungus, after one of my Seattle apartments, but I'm not sure I'll get to it.  I'd need to work a bit to get plants attached to walls instead of floors reliably.

Quote from: arkhometha
With the next version, will all the civ creatures (e.g. golbins, elfs and dwarfs) from legends be present in the map? Like I can talk to everybody (alive) from legends in adventure mode? What about FB/Titans, do you plan to have them all on the map? How will they move/decide where they will strike?

Yeah.  There could be exceptions, but you should be able to find all the civilized beings.  I haven't done findable FBs or underground civs like antmen.

Quote from: darklord92
How closely will dwarf mountain halls follow player forts? will you be using famous player forts for designs?

I'll probably look at some maps to remind myself of things I've forgotten, he he he.  There will be things that I probably won't attempt, with machines and so on, especially things that require active jobs to maintain.

Quote from: Aseaheru
will there be more than one design for mountain halls?

I'll be starting on that soon, and I think it'll likely end up like human towns in the sense that we are starting with one basic way of doing things that we plan to extend over time.  There's only so much that can be done right now.
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The Toad, a Natural Resource:  Preserve yours today!

Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4310 on: November 14, 2012, 05:14:08 am »

Quote from: mastahcheese
Will there be a form of true rebirth or possibly reincarnation? Rather than mummies that rot in tombs, will we ever see a fallen entombed general ever leave the tomb and rejoin society for some cause? And if an entity member worships a god of rebirth or something, will we see any form of reincarnation, either as a new birth of the same species, or perhaps different species? And would they be aware of it?

If either or both of these are implemented, would they show up beyond just being viewable in Legends mode? Would we see a dwarf be reborn/reincarnated in fortress mode, or perhaps have an adventurer do the same and be replayable from their new life?

On a completley unrelated note:
My wife was wondering, Will various foods in the game have viewable flavors? Such as if certain food is sweet or spicy, and if dwarves would prefer different flavors, as opposed to/in addition to specific foods. Also, would they have allergies to particular foods? Or at least disliking a particular food, which would cause a minor bad thought?

We have a resurrection effect already, but we don't do anything interesting with it.  I'm not sure what will happen in the future.

Trying to come up with general taste categories for things like bananas seems like a nightmare, or at least something that I couldn't do at all myself.  I'm technically for having that sort of information, but have no idea how to do it.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
If we have a modded world where some good regions resurrect the dead, are the dead returned to life and the population during worldgen?

Nah, world gen doesn't use the effects well, especially modded ones.

Quote from: Alu
So now that you are working on elven trees, does elven woodwork get special tagging now? An Elf snaps if he sees non-elven woodwork, because trees are being killed for it, so they do it differently by growing their furniture out of the tree or something right? Does elven woodwork get special tagging now, so they don't go crazy if you buy their stuff and sell it back to them?

It doesn't have a tag yet, but it should.  One would hope they could recognize their own work, especially as it becomes more unusual.

Quote from: Greendogo
Regarding Elves and their affection for trees; have you read Orson Scott Card's sequel to Ender's Game called "The Speaker For the Dead"?  It has a very interesting take on a kind of "tree husbandry".  The "Piggies", as they're called, use dance and song to ask the trees to produce the objects they need (the trees are grown from the bodies of their slain ancestors, and they're sentient).  I'm basically wondering how you're planning on Elves having wooden homes and wooden tools and other wooden stuff, but not carving it or hacking it out of the trees.

I haven't read it.  We weren't planning on dancing so much, but yeah, trees are growy.  We wanted something forest-dwelling humans couldn't do.

Quote from: hoveringdog
Are there any near-future plans to integrate tree products into existing fortress industries (e.g. pressing juices from mangoes, oil from coconuts or kapok, tapping maples for syrup, and then having those products for relevant brewing, cooking, or soap-making tasks)? Also, will any of the fictional trees (e.g. goblin cap, etc.) be given harvestable products?

I don't have a timeline for any of that.

Quote from: monk12
Will NPC forts fall prey to HFS? Trying to reclaim a fort you didn't design (and thus don't know where the important things are) from HFS, Moria-style, would be pretty amazing.

Ideally we'll get to that sort of thing.  I think it should all be on the table to make world generation non-static.  I'm not sure what I'll get to though.  I'd like to have some reclaimable forts from the start, at least a lot of the time.

Quote from: Calathar
How will the game handle preventing fort retirement exploits?  Essentially, if a fort is full of goblins or a syndrome sweeping the populace, what will stop a player from retiring the fort and preserving it as an NPC fort?  Will there be some means of ensuring that forts with !!Fun!! stay !!Fun!!?

It'll probably work out the way adventure mode retirement works, in that only a properly situated adventure can retire.  A fort in danger will likely need to be abandoned if you want to quit right then.  Danger is hard to track in certain circumstances though, so there will be exploits, just as you can exploit the current adv mode system.  I'm happy with allowing extra retirements rather than trying to restrict the option based on possibly dubious heuristics.  I think the siege light would ideally be a good block on retirement for instance (although it still stays on forever, sometimes...).

Quote from: Ribs
Say you manage to make your fortress the capital of a dwarven civilization and then retire said fortress, starting a new fortress with the same civilization somewhere else. Will it be just as easy to make this new fortress into the capital? Because with the standards we have right now it would be easy to make a new fortress every three or four game years or so and make it into the civilization capital. And if you could retire every one of them you'd see the king just hoping from place to place every couple of years. So, will each successful fortress raise the standards for making the upgrade?

and

What if you refused to be "baroned" and still retired a very sucessful fortress? How would that fortress work? Would it then be treated as something of an independent city-state or realm, maybe even becoming it's own entity sparking a new civilization of it's own?

That's how it would work right now, yeah.  Once it understands the situation in the original capital, that'll probably change.

We don't really have the consequences all coded for refusing the barony -- once that relationship is established more formally, it should be respected when your fortress retires.  It could very well end up as its own civilization at that point (and you'd also have dwarf invasion trouble at times).

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
Does this mean if we play as humans, we will be able to reclaim cities that have fallen into ruin? If so, how will we get around the 16x16 limit on the map size, given some cities are 17x17?

Is the new stuff in this version going to make the saves from 0.34.11 incomptable? If not, what will happen with the "non-existant" settlements in that world?

When it's modded, I'm not really sure what your site is supposed to represent -- I doubt you'll be allowed to reclaim villages (just as you won't be able to reclaim hill sites or deep sites for dwarves).

I certainly wouldn't count on using your old saves for this time.  There have been a lot of changes.

Quote from: CLA
Do you see DF as city building/management sim and roguelike game with the whole world generation thing around it as "gimmick", or do you think, possibly contrary to what DF might have started out as, persistent and continuous interaction with the World that is generated is now the core game mechanic of DF, with the three modes being various facets of that mechanic?

Relating the game to the whole world has always been the point of our main fantasy game (DF used to be a side project).  If you look back at the Armok 1 days, we were basically going for the same thing, but from the bottom up (too much).  The old Dragslay game had a little more world activity than DF (and was vastly more simple in most other ways), with towns being sacked and so on, and it was fun.  DF is just now starting to take that stuff up, and it should be really cool to finally get it going.

Quote from: Lolfail0009
With the fort retirement thing, will we be able to simulate the world a la worldgen, but after we leave a fort? And will adventurers gain in status over time?

There aren't many plans to simulate world gen after play has begun, since there are lots of difficulties with re-abstracting information.  There'll be times when time needs to be advanced though, and I haven't gotten into that yet.  I'm not sure what you mean by status.  There's the current "you're a hero!" thing, and we'd like to improve on that.

Quote from: darklord92
With the inclusion of underground sites, will tunnels be reintroduced to worldgen? and will they on longer be blocked up in fort mode so that dwarven caravans can enter your fort through the underground.

I've been ambivalent about this...  it could be that the deep sites are the tunnels now.  In a lot of those forts you could walk from a fortress, down into a deep site and then move between deep sites until you arrive at another fortress without stepping into an unclaimed cavern tile.  Eventually you'll get dwarven caravans from the underground, but perhaps not until we give you some associated sites of your own.

Quote from: Vattic
With the dwarven sites is there the possibility of whole mountain ranges carved inside into giant dwarven cities, riddled with corridors and rooms and similar not unlike Moria, or are you thinking smaller?

I've posted some of those pictures now, and you can see the amount of sites there.  I'm not sure exactly how carved deep sites will be though, since I'm still on the hill sites.  They won't carve every tile on every z-level, but there should be a healthy amount of carving going on -- enough to get you across the mountain range if they've settled it.  It is a huge area since they've got many z's to play with, and I don't want dwarven populations much higher than the populations of other civilized creatures, so the could be certain sparseness or clustering (or just a ton of mine tunnels).  We'll have to see how it plays out.

Quote from: Cobbler89
Will there ever be an option for Fort Mode to play as a deep mountain site? I.e. is the description of (paraphrasing) "fortresses are what you play as in fort mode, but in addition we're adding hill settlements and deep sites inside mountains" merely indicative of how these sites compare to what is currently in fort mode, or is this restrictive in that we should not expect to be able to play these other new types of sites anywhere down the road?

The reason the fortresses are small on the map is that playing 17x17 sites isn't really on the table.  I wouldn't rule out a starting scenario in the future that takes place in the underground though.  Those kind of sites would then occur in world gen as well, as small forts (or whatevers) within the mountain that don't have surface entry.  Perhaps they'd occur on the boundary with underground animal people or underground goblins when those are fleshed out.

Quote from: Ribs
I'm curious to know if we'll be able to link ourselves through underground roads leading to the formation of these "deep sites" on the outskirts of our fortresses.

Do you plan on having underground cities forming themselves semi-independently around your fortress, just like you plan to have aboveground villages being formed on surrounding territory as the game progresses?

Yeah, the deep site plans align with the hill dwarf plans there.  When we do them for fortress mode play, it is now almost guaranteed that we'll do hill and deep site linkages/mechanics at the same time.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
If caravans and/or migrants arrive through the cavern layers and tunnels, would they still be able to arrive during sieges on the surface? If we get underground sieges, will there be a differentiation between the levels that are being sieged and the levels not being sieged to allow migrants to arrive some way or other (i.e. by means of a sealed underground road that leads to the next fortress)?

Will other races set up trading outposts around our fortresses as they grow?

I think eventually there will be a differentiation between the levels.  There isn't really a need for it yet, since I haven't added lower caravans.

You'll likely have a more explicitly stated relationship with nearby sites as you get your own associated outside sites, but I don't have specific plans.

Quote from: Mr S
Toady, will the Three Tiered Dwarven Sites implement another site flag, similarly to the Lair Flag, to indicate which type of site they are?  Are there any practical, overhead, coplexity or gamey distinctions between them?  Will we be able to reclaim any of these three types?  What will be complications/restrictions for borders of these underground sites be if/when they do indeed span multiple areas (2x2 - 4x4) and/or have tunnels connecting them?

The hill/deep sites are too large to reclaim, and that's the main difference, though the maps are also completely different.  I'm not sure about the borders -- the layers of the cavern tend to be connected, though there are water areas.  I'm sure I'll encounter various problems when I get to the deep site maps.  Ideally, the fortresses will go down to at least the first layer (and sometimes all the way down to have magma forges), and through the cavern layers they will connect to the deep site maps.  I'm not sure every deep site map will be on a cavern layer(s), but it'll probably be very common for them to have a significant presence there, especially for food and lumber.

Quote
Quote from: eux0r
will two sites be able to occupy the same x-y-coordinates, even when theyre not from the same civ? in general, will two civs be able to occupy the same territory, as long as one is above and the other is below ground level?
Quote from: CaptainArchmage
Will multiple sites be abel to occupy the same map time, as in fortresses and deep sites on multiple levels on the map?

Eventually we'll need to deal with x/y overlap of sites, but we've just managed to avoid this time.  It's a not-difficult but lengthy rewrite I'd like to continue to avoid since it'll overload me for this release.  Once we get to underground animal person sites, I think it'll be unavoidable, but that'll be good and it'll lead to some cool things.

Quote from: hermes
When a dwarven civ expands, either in worldgen or in the general lore of the game, is there a regular order in which the three types of settlements emerge from the mother civ - e.g. hill dwarfs migrate then decide to dig down and make a fortress which eventually begets a deep site, or deep site up, or something else - or are they independent of each other in terms of origin?

I think we'll explore the concepts more deeply when we get to start scenarios, but right now we work with a starting fortress at year 1.  They prefer to go deep, but if they have no room, they degenerate and go hill.  They try to ring the mountain ranges with forts, and these also determine political/economic centers of power, since everything passes through them.  Dwarves tend to cling more tightly than other civs overall, since they don't seek the best river squares within their overall area of influence, but are happy with planting a new deep site in their range.

Quote from: darklord92
Will dwarven sites ever become separate ruins, as a dwarf site becomes a deep site and than a fort will the above ground fort ever be abandoned and become ruins and the lower site remain a underground city?

Yeah, the sites are treated independently, so dwarves can go full-mountain if things don't go their way.  All the market flags are on fortresses, so this would isolate them economically in the simulation as well.

Quote from: Kumis
If fortresses now connect the surface to the underground societies will we now find restrictions upon where we can embark, or if not a restriction then a new possibility to make a fortress as an entrance to our mountain home?

Will our fortresses still become the capital after a time? It seems a bit weird to turn the front door into the throne room, so to speak.

Until we get to start scenarios, I'm not placing any additional restrictions.  The dwarves in world gen never place forts away from border mountains, but it still lets you put them wherever you want.  Even when I get to start scenarios, there will still always be a way to put a fortress most anywhere you can already, I think.  The start scenarios will also govern your relation to hill/deep sites and other forts, and you'll still be able to have the monarch be your live-in buddy.  It might make sense to make the monarch a deep site dweller at the center of the mountain range, but the way it works now, the forts are the important part and the only places where nobles higher than barons live.  We'll see how this plays out over time.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
Toady, do you have any ideas or goals for when ships, boats, and vehicles are added? Specifically, do you see ships, boats, and vehicles as being optionally designed by the player within the game, or just being hardcoded or defined within the raws?

I have no idea.  Ideally you'd have a good deal of control over how a ship works, though as with human site buildings for example it might take a while to get any of that out into the raws.  If you produce a ship for yourself in game (for instance, as an adventurer), it would be cool if you had the option to custom make it exactly how you want.

Quote from: mastahcheese
Will we ever be able to play out the trip towards a new site? Such as, when a site is being chosen, would we see a travel line from the entity's capitol toward the desired embark and actually have the wagon move along it, sort of like adventure mode travel, but in control of the dwarves?
If this were possible, would we also be able to change the path taken, such as making it longer in order to avoid going through an evil forest?

It has been an idea that's floating around, and I'm not against it as an option, but it's quite a bit of work, so I suspect we'll arrive at it more indirectly through the adventure trader stuff.  If you start as a dwarf adventurer, and take on a wagon and some buddies, then it's almost all handled, once the caravan stuff is in.  We have some ideas for running a site while you are an adventurer, but switching over to a dwarf mode style game might also be an option once you meet certain criteria.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold
Are the dwarven settlements outside of mountains still called Mountainhomes or are they Hill-, Plains-, or Whateverhomes?

He he he -- right now it says "Dwarven Fortress", "Dwarven Mountain Halls" (for deep sites), and "Dwarven Hillocks" (for the hill dwarves, who can get a little moundy in their jealousy).  I'm not sure at this point if a Mountainhome constitutes the entirety of the deep sites and fortresses in a given mountain range, or the spot where the monarch is.

Quote from: HiEv
When you say that "you'd be able to get communities like these settled around your own fort", do you mean that we'd be able to send migrants out of our fort to settle/join other areas?

If so, that sounds kind of cool.

Also, how will nearby communities affect trade?

Yeah, that'll be part of it.  The trade ramifications are something we're still trying to comprehend.  It could be an almost permanent fair-like presence since time runs too fast to have a weekly market setup.

Quote from: misko27
So then, are we going to see more territorial conflicts in world-gen? As sprawl is now so much more important, are various civs going to fight to establish themselves in a given are? Sorta of overlaps with the can sites overlap with underground ones, since that'd make it easier.

It's certainly getting there.  As more and more uncomfortable situations arise, with the upcoming succession and so on, I imagine things will fall into place here, to avoid it being bonkers.

Quote from: BinaryBeast1010011010
will the "outside" nobles (baron, all the way to the king) will now have different requirements? link to the capital like a secure tunnel through one of the cavern layers from inside the fortress to the edge?
will we be able to found underground "link" fortress to link two parts of the civ each on one side of a mountain chain (dawn of time challenge any one?)? if yes will there be rules such has "dont breach the above ground" or something like that?

Not right now.  Once we know more about your relationship with the world, it should be more natural to update exactly what it means for one of your dwarves to be elevated, or for somebody to come from outside.  I addressed inner fortresses elsewhere in these questions.  I feel a little weird about restrictions about digging through the ceiling, since the surface would be sitting right there.

Quote from: rhesusmacabre
Will there be an underground dwarvern equivalent of human farmland?

Yeah, they'll need to get their food someplace.  Deep sites will do it one way, and hill sites will go another.  Mostly the same, mushroomy, but hill dwarves might also degrade to a bit of outdoor work in keeping with their fallen nature.

Quote from: Quatch
Now that the maps are being filled in with more realistic sized (scale-abiding) settlements, will the overall size of the world* change so as to preserve undiscovered wilderness areas?

They are plenty big right now I think, and you have control over the amount of sprawl with the world gen site cap.  It should be okay.  We'll see how it plays out when player forts starting eating up more than one tile with their own hill/deep sites.

Quote from: Lord Zack
Will we only be able to reclaim sites of our own race or civ?

I'd like to be able to take over an abandoned human fortress and then transform it into a proper dwarf one, personally.

Will reclaimed world gen fortresses already have workshops and areas that were formerly stockpiles?

Right now we're sticking with dwarf sites.  A human fortress or a necromancer's tower would be the next likely candidates, since they are small enough to manage, but we don't have specific plans there.

The workshop questions is one of the trickier parts of the non-player forts, since it needs to also align with whatever our solution ends up being for human towns, and one of the highlights of the ultima style games was being able to mess around with stuff at a greater level of detail than "workshop".  Not sure what the end result is going to be.

Quote from: monk12
Will invading Humans/Elves/Goblins be able to conquer the deeper dwarf sites, or will they be restricted to the hill sites and the fortresses?

A player founded fortress will be able to spread to deeper dwarf sites as well as the hills, yes? Will the player be able to direct/incentivize this spread in a particular direction?

If a player fortress generates significant deeper sites, and then releases HFS, will the HFS spread to the deeper sites and claim the whole mountain for themselves, or will they just hang out in the site where they were released?

It happens that way now, pretty indiscriminately -- ideally they'd have to nab the fortresses before they can get underground, and hopefully I can get to that.  I don't think it would be unreasonable to direct your deep sites, particularly if you have some kind of start scenario about forming a tunnel connection to a previous fort or something like that.

I'm not sure how HFS will play out, or how much I'll share of that if I do change it, he he he.

Quote from: Japa
Toady, with dwarven settlements now being common, will it be possible to fast-travel through them?

I think that'll be necessary, yeah.  When I'm done with site maps I'll try to wrap my head around it.  The annoying part'll be when you have two forts with their own deep sites but an intervening square or two of unsettled cavern.  I guess that's kind of like zooming in to cross rivers, but it'll take a bit longer. The caverns need their own travel maps, and I need to strike a balance between travel speed, knowing where you are, exploration and maintaining some mystery and adventure.

Quote from: dhokarena56
Toady, will other races have these sorts of new site divisions at all? I can easily imagine a true distinction between cities and surrounding hamlets for humans, or maybe a goblin dark tower having a clutch of small, scattered camps around it to better protect against invasion and act as outposts. Connected to that, will sites ever "mature" into another class of site, or decay into a less populous class?

Finally, are we ever going to be able to play as these different sorts of sites? And, will the depth of sites be more variable to account for the different site depths, especially on embark?

I'm not sure what you mean by a true distinction.  There is a flag that differentiates cities and hamlets based on the presence of a market, and it works fine that way.  There are various sites surrounding goblin towers now -- they were there before, but now they are displayed and they have maps.  Cities grow from hamlets during world gen already, and they can outright die, but there isn't much change in the world -- wars, disease, migration and economic variation should have more impact.

There were very vague long-term plans for other modes of play, but I'm not sure what's going to happen there.

Quote from: Heph
In the first map in the upper 1/3rd of the right side there is a darkgrey "Block". What does it mean?

I guess people who are curious will have to go on a little journey, he he he.  It'll be there waiting.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
In older versions, dwarf fortresses had a color relevant to the population, so darker grey fortresses had smaller populations and the largest fortresses showed up as white. Now, white settlements indicate fortresses, light grey settlements indicate hill dwarves, and dark grey settlements indicate deep dwarves. The symbols for the sites of other entities still change depending on the population on the world map, so will we still have such an on-map indicator for fortress size or not?

Fortress size isn't that important now, really.  Forts have player-levels of dwarves, so they are always pretty small, pop-wise.  The dwarven sites overall have the least population variation now.

Quote from: Tov01
Will you changed anything about how succession works in this release or the ones immediately after it? For example, if a monarch dies with no heir, will the game try to find a more distant relation to take their place (siblings, spouse, ext), instead of picking someone at random, as the game seems to do now? Or, if the heir is still a child, will the child take the throne (perhaps, in a later release, with a steward ruling in the meantime), instead of ignoring the child heir completely?

I haven't gotten to that yet.  I think it might be the last really big thing I said I was going to do for this release -- the whole birth/death/succession/marriage thingy to get the world kicked off properly.  It's especially necessary now that so many extra people die during play.  I'm not sure if that's going to address specific issues such as going to other relations.

Quote from: dhokarena56
Are we going to get to interact with successions or hierarchies this go-around? I don't know what that would entail, exactly- perhaps trying to promote your baron to monarch or starting a coup?

Aside from the basics of getting things to work in play at all, it probably won't be that interesting this time.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
So as it is, the king is going to just move around from fortress to fortress, without there being a main capitol? This seems to make sense but is there going to be a tag on the king to indicate that he will move around? When other entities have kings, will they move around by default or be settled in one place unless there's a very good reason to move?

The idea here is that dwarves may have a king who will move to a different town if there's adamantine or if there are more +<<+platinum goblets+>>+, while human kings will generally stay in one place.

I've notice someone has put up something on the suggestions forum about island settlements. If we settle on an otherwise uninhabited island, will settlements still spring up around the fortress?

The dwarven monarch is a special case as it relates to your fortress in play, so I haven't set up a tag for it.  It would be reasonable to do so, so we can see more movement in world gen (right now the movement is just theoretical to explain what's going on with you, in the absence of start scenarios or anything else).

For islands, I'm not really sure.  It's one of the things that start scenarios are meant to address -- why are you on an island?  Ideally, it would detect that (it knows where all the land masses are as it stands), and restrict your scenario options based on that -- assuming you choose location first and scenario second.  I'm not sure if you'll pick the location first or the scenario first.  I think that'll probably be a matter of taste.  I'd personally pick the scenario first, but with things like the site-finder and people looking for the ideal fort spot, I imagine being able to pick any location first would be a high importance item to a lot of people.

Quote from: Brotato
Will hill-dwarf settlements spring up naturally around our fortresses, or will we send migrants out in the hope they establish colonies for us?

I can imagine scenarios where you bring a whole train of hill dwarves that give you a small starting hill dwarf site from the beginning, or one where you try to get something set up from your initial fortress after migrants arrive (or even just from the native-born population, though that would be slow).

Quote from: ag
Will it be possible to bring a player fortress out of retirement in case you have a new idea or something, like you can with an adventurer, or is the retirement process strictly one-way?

I think it's a little different, and it's a more difficult problem.  I don't have an issue, theoretically, with unretiring fortresses, or being able to assume control of a non-player fortress that isn't dead -- we've talked about it in terms of adventurers, where you might in the future be able to assume control of an existing historical figure.  I don't think I'm going to do it this time around, and it's something that should be considered more in terms of world gen options than as a basic mechanic, since it does spoil the otherness of computer people and sites.  For unretiring player forts, which isn't that way, it still has the technical problem -- if an adventurer has visited the site, the unretired site would be a very different critter than you started with, and I'm not confident that there would even be a point in attempting it, but we'll see what happens once I get a site retired.

Quote from: CaptainArchmage
Also, with the addition of hillocks, are dwarves actually going to be moving earth around in the next release and if will this facility be included in fortress mode for players?

There isn't going to be a new feature there.  We're definitely at the point where we need to draw a line around what we are doing.  There are already a ton of outstanding issues.

Quote from: dancing kobold
for the next release. how smart do you want the AI that control retired player fortresses be? will it actually simulate the fortress similar to the way players do it or will it "cheat" a bit? if it cheats. will it then take into consideration what stuff you have at the site for how much chance it have to survive?

For the next release?  There won't be much.  Human towns don't do much yet either.  That'll have to come later.  We are doing some basic army stuff, patrol stuff, and birth/death/succession/marriage stuff, but the nuances of town management and development are beyond this release.

Quote from: XXSockXX
Will hill dwarf sites and deep sites be subject to invasions or MB/FB rampages during gameplay? Will you need to and be able to defend them?

Will you eventually be able to control these sites in the same way you control your fort?

Yeah, this was one of the main ideas of the army arc, and one of the main reasons for adding hill dwarf settlements to begin with.  Everything will eventually be subject to the issues of the world.

The sites are too large to control as you control your fort, but you should have significant influence over them in many cases.

Quote from: misko27
Since theres now a whole window for nobility and holdings, is it going to remain limited to showing dwarven sites, or will it eventually include the loose allances of the human lords, or what now appear to be goblin and elven sprawl?

I think it'll probably get more interesting, since it is quite dwarf-centric with a lot of wasted space right now.

Quote from: Valtam
Now that we're going to find fortress dwarves in their natural habitat, without telling us about how far from their home they are, are there plans to fit or expand their interaction choices with adventurers? Maybe trading with brokers or request healing from medicine laborers?

Yeah, hopefully they'll at least be as interesting as human cities are.  They doesn't mean there's going to be healing options yet.

Quote from: Putnam
Speaking of interactions, as a modder, are there going to be any expansions of old modding with this release? More tokens for CE_ADD_TAG, more syndrome types, more usage hints, more counter triggers, anything like that? Or is it just a straight shot to expansion and activation of the world?

I think it has been a reasonably straight shot, but there has been a lot added to the raws of course.  For new interaction stuff, there's the vampire senses, and maybe various other things.  In general between expanding the skeleton of the game and bug-fixing, there's the idea of fleshing things out, which for us usually means lots of feature expansion and interconnections of old features of the sort you are talking about, and I don't think we've done much of that over the last many months.  And there probably won't be a lot of it up through this release since we've already bitten off a large chunk.  I'm not sure when I'll get around to more of that.  We'll be at an interesting spot after this release, with any number of directions to go, and we still need to decide which one or ones we'll choose.
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4311 on: November 14, 2012, 06:21:08 am »

Quote
It has been an idea that's floating around, and I'm not against it as an option, but it's quite a bit of work, so I suspect we'll arrive at it more indirectly through the adventure trader stuff.  If you start as a dwarf adventurer, and take on a wagon and some buddies, then it's almost all handled, once the caravan stuff is in.  We have some ideas for running a site while you are an adventurer, but switching over to a dwarf mode style game might also be an option once you meet certain criteria.

Good news. Will it be possible to do the contrary ? That is to say, choose a dwarf in Fortress mode, and make him leave the fortress, switching then to the adventurer mode while "retiring" from Fortress mode and letting the fortress as it is ?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 06:23:19 am by Inarius »
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Broken

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4312 on: November 14, 2012, 06:34:36 am »

Good news. Will it be possible to do the contrary ? That is to say, choose a dwarf in Fortress mode, and make him leave the fortress, switching then to the adventurer mode while "retiring" from Fortress mode and letting the fortress as it is ?
[/quote]

There are plans to allow you to take historical figures people as adventurers. Once that is done, it will be posible(retiring the fort, and then starting an adventure with the figure of your choice, who can be a member of the fort)
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In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
Dwarf fortress: Tales of terror and inevitability

Trif

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4313 on: November 14, 2012, 07:28:07 am »

Thanks, Toady!
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Quote from: Toady One
I wonder if the game has become odd.

tahujdt

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4314 on: November 14, 2012, 11:17:00 am »

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Mephansteras

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4315 on: November 14, 2012, 12:41:29 pm »

For islands, I'm not really sure.  It's one of the things that start scenarios are meant to address -- why are you on an island?  Ideally, it would detect that (it knows where all the land masses are as it stands), and restrict your scenario options based on that -- assuming you choose location first and scenario second.  I'm not sure if you'll pick the location first or the scenario first.  I think that'll probably be a matter of taste.  I'd personally pick the scenario first, but with things like the site-finder and people looking for the ideal fort spot, I imagine being able to pick any location first would be a high importance item to a lot of people.

Will this be a world-gen toggle? Or maybe you're given the map of the world and then given an option to pick site or scenario? Could scenarios actually pick sites for you?

It'd be neat to have some stuff, like founding a trade outpost, be site driven while others, like a shipwreck, be scenario based where it picks a site for you.
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CaptainArchmage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4316 on: November 14, 2012, 01:43:43 pm »

With regards to starting on islands, my question was regarding the upcoming release. Are we going to have starting scenarios in already? As it is you just pick anywhere that isn't mountain or ocean to start, hit embark, and go, even if its a totally stupid Fun jungle on an uninhabited volcanic island with no access to any race. I was wondering whether in those situations in the upcoming release, you'd get deep or hill sites appearing around your fortress (without the implementation of "scenarios").
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Rockphed

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4317 on: November 14, 2012, 01:54:47 pm »

For islands, I'm not really sure.  It's one of the things that start scenarios are meant to address -- why are you on an island?  Ideally, it would detect that (it knows where all the land masses are as it stands), and restrict your scenario options based on that -- assuming you choose location first and scenario second.  I'm not sure if you'll pick the location first or the scenario first.  I think that'll probably be a matter of taste.  I'd personally pick the scenario first, but with things like the site-finder and people looking for the ideal fort spot, I imagine being able to pick any location first would be a high importance item to a lot of people.

Will this be a world-gen toggle? Or maybe you're given the map of the world and then given an option to pick site or scenario? Could scenarios actually pick sites for you?

It'd be neat to have some stuff, like founding a trade outpost, be site driven while others, like a shipwreck, be scenario based where it picks a site for you.

The thing I am looking forward to about scenarios is that they will give you a set of dwarves and supplies, and you will have to create a fortress out of it, whether or not those supplies are actually what you need and want.  One of my favorite games ever was the "no supplies, no immigrants" start in the last days of 40d.  I ended up hunting the local unicorn population to extinction and selling bolts to the caravan in exchange for a pick, an axe, and a couple blocks.  The first step was deconstructing the wagon for the logs to build workshops.  I don't remember if it ever worked in the versions since 40d.
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RAKninja

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4318 on: November 14, 2012, 02:19:57 pm »

Quote from: Tov01
Also, another goblin question I probably should have asked earlier.

Does it fit in your view of goblins for them to have farms to feed their livestock (once feed is implemented, of course), and perhaps their slaves (as in, feeding slaves the same gruel they feed their animals)?

Things currently go through a cycle over a year.  It doesn't track individual flowers turning into individual fruit, but since they occur in turn, the effect is the same.  I've put in a rough cycle for each of the trees, so you can end up with some spathe type critters and so on.

Nope, don't like farms.  I don't expect goblin animals to need feed in the end.  They can eat rats out in the swamp.  The kidnapees need to be fed.  I'm not sure they track that right now, since they are historical figures and we softened their need to feed after some problems elsewhere.  It might rely on butchered beakdogs or trade later.

if memory serves from my testing in goblin fortress, my kidnapped children from worldgen would starve to death on most sites unless i made humans [NO_EAT] or made goblins live in human style towns.

it seems sensable that goblins who have been very active snatchers/slave breeders who have large non-goblin populations do develop rather sizable slave farms to feed their masses.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4319 on: November 14, 2012, 02:41:53 pm »

Quote from: ag
Will it be possible to bring a player fortress out of retirement in case you have a new idea or something, like you can with an adventurer, or is the retirement process strictly one-way?

I think it's a little different, and it's a more difficult problem.  I don't have an issue, theoretically, with unretiring fortresses, or being able to assume control of a non-player fortress that isn't dead -- we've talked about it in terms of adventurers, where you might in the future be able to assume control of an existing historical figure.  I don't think I'm going to do it this time around, and it's something that should be considered more in terms of world gen options than as a basic mechanic, since it does spoil the otherness of computer people and sites.  For unretiring player forts, which isn't that way, it still has the technical problem -- if an adventurer has visited the site, the unretired site would be a very different critter than you started with, and I'm not confident that there would even be a point in attempting it, but we'll see what happens once I get a site retired.
Well... a lot of people will be disappointed about that one for sure.
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