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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 2451125 times)

Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10455 on: April 28, 2014, 09:05:00 am »

Do you have any plans on making a world editor sometime? Or do you use one already? I mean not only shape the world but also add characters, religions, monsters, lairs, factions, kings, towers, castles, forests... etc? Something that allows you to lay down a world the exact way you want to, down to names, ages, genders and everything, and for example, make a start scenario from any part of a Lord of The Rings book/movie?
That's Future Future material:
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EDITORS: Draw your own region maps, create your own towns, creatures, items, start situations, etc. For example, you could create Earth at various time periods (or an amalgamation of various time periods).

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Toady:   Yeah, yeah. Then you'd be able to ... you could recruit half of them or whatever, and then you'd have this really interesting party of people that you understood and that the game understood how you understood, to some extent; it'd be awesome. That kind of thing would mix nicely with a world editor or whatever, just being able to create the kind of characters that you want, for people that want to reenact their favorite book or whatever, when we get to that. Because I mean it's the kind of thing that's just kind of sitting there waiting to be done, right? A site map editor or a world map editor that's better than the one we've got, and the reason I haven't done that or I haven't moved towards that at all is because I'm not sure what the character editor would be like or things like that, putting together the world that way; and because the world's changing so much it would just kind of be another anchor on the game making it slower to develop because you'd have to go back and look at the editor. But we're going to reach a certain point, when we start thinking about things like this, where it becomes very natural to add an editor that would already be tied into the intent of retirement, so it wouldn't actually be an anchor on the game because I'd have to change it anyway. If the editors ... Right now there's a name editor for naming your fortress and so that name editor always has to be kept up to date anyway, so that name editor can be used in the editing, in the actual world editing, so there's no loss there in terms of having a world editor. But the characters are different, like having a historical figure editor right now is a pretty heavy cost, but it wouldn't necessarily be, anyway.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10456 on: April 28, 2014, 09:05:39 am »

Given how complex and interconnected the historical part is, I don't see such an editor for that being feaseable.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10457 on: April 28, 2014, 09:13:57 am »

Given how complex and interconnected the historical part is, I don't see such an editor for that being feaseable.
It would definitely be tough. At the very least, it'd need some kind of auto-complete for things you didn't touch.
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10458 on: April 28, 2014, 09:15:16 am »

It its complex because of world gen I think. I sense that starting scenarios, no matter how complex you make them, will pale in detail and complexity over procedurally/naturally made by the game, unless you spend a lot of time or somehow a lot of people work on it.

If you think about it, for the basics you don't need "all that much". Things like a world and local map editor seems fairly easy to do (now, to do them fool proof it's another thing). Next would be being able to create civilizations, factions and their respective characteristics and stances against each other (including assigning places/local maps/areas/regions to them) and lastly being able to create nobles, family trees and other special characters would allow you to outline almost any scenario you could think off.

Now, being able to write the history behind all that could be "easy" but bothersome, probably you would need to create whole lines of characters and depict their actions and how they killed/helped/conquered/fathered each other and so on. I mean, it could be just text if you want to, because "getting there" the old way would be simply impossible.

Dunno, I'm just bored and hyped.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 09:18:54 am by LordBaal »
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10459 on: April 28, 2014, 10:25:22 am »

It its complex because of world gen I think. I sense that starting scenarios, no matter how complex you make them, will pale in detail and complexity over procedurally/naturally made by the game, unless you spend a lot of time or somehow a lot of people work on it.

If you think about it, for the basics you don't need "all that much". Things like a world and local map editor seems fairly easy to do (now, to do them fool proof it's another thing). Next would be being able to create civilizations, factions and their respective characteristics and stances against each other (including assigning places/local maps/areas/regions to them) and lastly being able to create nobles, family trees and other special characters would allow you to outline almost any scenario you could think off.

Now, being able to write the history behind all that could be "easy" but bothersome, probably you would need to create whole lines of characters and depict their actions and how they killed/helped/conquered/fathered each other and so on. I mean, it could be just text if you want to, because "getting there" the old way would be simply impossible.

Dunno, I'm just bored and hyped.
Yeah, I think doing worldgen by hand is a bit tedious.  But it should be possible to set up the initial stuff and let the world spin.  It might even be possible to put constraints on the worldgen (Human Civ England and Human Civ France at war >=25% of time, >3 Elf Civs in year 100, >2 Elf Civs in year 500, etc.) but that would have dependencies on all the same things as the editor, so it will be a long way off.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10460 on: April 28, 2014, 10:26:25 am »

In the next release will eggs hatch in adventure mode?  Specifically those dragon eggs people keep finding.
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10461 on: April 28, 2014, 10:39:41 am »

I hope so, that's the kind of stuff one expects from an activated world... however it's a very fine question.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10462 on: April 28, 2014, 10:49:54 am »

In the next release will eggs hatch in adventure mode?  Specifically those dragon eggs people keep finding.

If you take some eggs from a dragons nest in adventurer mode and bring it to a fortress, will they still hatch? Assuming your dwarves don't make omlettes out of them between retiring the adventurer and taking control of the fort again.

If so, then baby Dragonlets! :D  People might mod them to grow up faster rather than taking a thousand years to grow to full size if they do this.
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10463 on: April 28, 2014, 12:08:37 pm »

In the next release will eggs hatch in adventure mode?  Specifically those dragon eggs people keep finding.

If you take some eggs from a dragons nest in adventurer mode and bring it to a fortress, will they still hatch? Assuming your dwarves don't make omlettes out of them between retiring the adventurer and taking control of the fort again.

If so, then baby Dragonlets! :D  People might mod them to grow up faster rather than taking a thousand years to grow to full size if they do this.

Don't you have to mod dragons currently to ever get them to hatch at all outside of world gen? I doubt Toady have strayed into fixing small issues like that since it's not really related to anything in the soon to come release more than general worldiness. Might be something that'd get sorted in the post-release fixing period though.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10464 on: April 28, 2014, 04:05:12 pm »

In the next release will eggs hatch in adventure mode?  Specifically those dragon eggs people keep finding.

If you take some eggs from a dragons nest in adventurer mode and bring it to a fortress, will they still hatch? Assuming your dwarves don't make omlettes out of them between retiring the adventurer and taking control of the fort again.

If so, then baby Dragonlets! :D  People might mod them to grow up faster rather than taking a thousand years to grow to full size if they do this.

Don't you have to mod dragons currently to ever get them to hatch at all outside of world gen? I doubt Toady have strayed into fixing small issues like that since it's not really related to anything in the soon to come release more than general worldiness. Might be something that'd get sorted in the post-release fixing period though.

That was before he activated the world though, so we don't really know what will happen with the eggs for sure.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10465 on: April 28, 2014, 04:38:22 pm »

In the next release will eggs hatch in adventure mode?  Specifically those dragon eggs people keep finding.

If you take some eggs from a dragons nest in adventurer mode and bring it to a fortress, will they still hatch? Assuming your dwarves don't make omlettes out of them between retiring the adventurer and taking control of the fort again.

If so, then baby Dragonlets! :D  People might mod them to grow up faster rather than taking a thousand years to grow to full size if they do this.

Don't you have to mod dragons currently to ever get them to hatch at all outside of world gen? I doubt Toady have strayed into fixing small issues like that since it's not really related to anything in the soon to come release more than general worldiness. Might be something that'd get sorted in the post-release fixing period though.

I just know that every couple months someone finds a dragon egg and comes to the adventure mode forums asking what they can do with it.  Maybe that's dropped off, I haven't been by the adventure mode forums much recently.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10466 on: April 28, 2014, 04:44:00 pm »

I'd be rather surprised if found eggs hatch in the next version, to be honest. I don't recall any specific mention that Toady looked at eggs, and the new births that are getting scheduled are likely to always be live units for now, and not items. Besides, found eggs would be outside nest boxes, which I think are still the only way to hatch eggs, so those found eggs would need new mechanics to be able to hatch.
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10467 on: April 28, 2014, 04:53:17 pm »

In the next release will eggs hatch in adventure mode?  Specifically those dragon eggs people keep finding.

If you take some eggs from a dragons nest in adventurer mode and bring it to a fortress, will they still hatch? Assuming your dwarves don't make omlettes out of them between retiring the adventurer and taking control of the fort again.

If so, then baby Dragonlets! :D  People might mod them to grow up faster rather than taking a thousand years to grow to full size if they do this.

Don't you have to mod dragons currently to ever get them to hatch at all outside of world gen? I doubt Toady have strayed into fixing small issues like that since it's not really related to anything in the soon to come release more than general worldiness. Might be something that'd get sorted in the post-release fixing period though.

That was before he activated the world though, so we don't really know what will happen with the eggs for sure.

Activating the world isn't really a flip of a switch that just makes things work in new ways. Unless he specifically changed eggs and/or dragons there won't be anything new with them, since the issue isn't so much with lack of an activated world as with eggs being very much unfinished overall. They'll obviously be sorted at some point, but I doubt Toady has taken the time to fix that particular tiny detail out of nowhere when he had a hundred vastly bigger prospects to deal with. I'd love to be wrong though of course, but to me expecting that kind of change doesn't make sense.

Fixing eggs certainly has a somewhat higher prio now though. It wouldn't surprise me if it got touched upon when Kobolds get sorted (hopefully in one of the smaller releases following bugfixing, since it should've been in this release to start with).

Ninjaed by Knight Otu it seems ^^
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CaptainArchmage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10468 on: April 28, 2014, 05:35:28 pm »

Now that the release is just in the debugging stage (to make it playable).......

With this release having taken nearly two years so far, do you think future release cycles will be shorter or could we see long intervals of 6 months to 2 years again in the future?
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10469 on: April 28, 2014, 05:53:54 pm »

Now that the release is just in the debugging stage (to make it playable).......

With this release having taken nearly two years so far, do you think future release cycles will be shorter or could we see long intervals of 6 months to 2 years again in the future?

I'd assume it's the same as with every other long release cycle. He doesn't want them to take that long and hopes to do better, but will most likely slip back into massive releases every now and then anyway. Personally I don't really mind, since it's still the same amount of content that gets done over the same time ish. Then again I'm kind of weird xP
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