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Author Topic: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.xx  (Read 28031 times)

TempAcc

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #150 on: February 20, 2012, 01:59:58 pm »

The good: adventurer mode is marvelously faster and more interesting.

The bad: fortress mode is broken for me, I can't seem to get more then 4 FPS, even after messing with init and d_init options.
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Footkerchief

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #151 on: February 20, 2012, 02:02:51 pm »

The bad: fortress mode is broken for me, I can't seem to get more then 4 FPS, even after messing with init and d_init options.

Have you tried changing the PRINT_MODE in init.txt?
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TempAcc

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #152 on: February 20, 2012, 02:06:44 pm »

Yea, its currently on PARTIAL:0, any higher value makes DF crash on startup. I'm using 34.02 .
My usual starting FPS on 31.xx was 50-ish on a 6x6 high elevation embark with magma, temperature on. I have no idea what could be causing it. I'll try setting processor affinity to a single core and see what happens.
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Footkerchief

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #153 on: February 20, 2012, 02:15:59 pm »

Tried updating your graphics drivers?
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TempAcc

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #154 on: February 20, 2012, 03:13:25 pm »

I just found out whats the problem: version 34.02 seems to hate me.

My first adv mode save was on 34.01 and it had no real problems and was pretty fast. I just unzipped 34.01 again, genned a world and made a fortress on similar terrain to my last attempt on 34.02, and I get stable 50 FPS with no tweaks to d_init and init except for FPS:YES. I tried adv mode on 34.02 just before I posted this and it was also unbearably slow.

TL;DR 34.01 works fine, 34.02 is ungodly slow to me. Tested both using same d_init and init options and similar embark conditions.

EDIT: worldgen is also noticeably faster in 34.01 then in 34.02, altough the latest version worldgen isn't unbearably slow like adv and fort mode, just sligthly slower, but yea, 34.01 generates worlds almost twice as fast on the long run.

EDIT2: I just tested other things (site finder, legends mode loading time, save and load times) and it seems 34.02 is slower on every aspect, but are not game breakingly slow like adv and fort mode.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 03:27:03 pm by TempAcc »
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ohgoditburns

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #155 on: February 20, 2012, 08:10:37 pm »

good: New units screen; new cities

bad: way too many animal men and giant animals.

ugly: undead resurrect too fast with no way to permanently kill them, as far as I can tell. If silver weapons could off them permanently, that'd be a lot better.



As far as the animalmen and giant animals go... I think it would be best if savage biomes had a chance of having all animals turned into giant versions. Animalmen should be a lot more generic. I don't want a love-faced birdman (as terrifying as that is). Better to just have a birdman race with different castes for each different bird type.
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Vercingetorix

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #156 on: February 20, 2012, 08:22:37 pm »

The good: new creatures, evil weather, new unit screen, vampires.  Also, dwarven migrants from worldgen is really cool; I got a 131-year-old dwarf in a migration wave, which was pretty neat, and I also got the former outpost liaison as a migrant...I guess he liked the place.  The evil weather's also pretty nice if it's tame because it guarantees steady training for the diagnosis skill.  FPS also does seem better than in 0.31.25, although I also got a new laptop in the interim so it's hard to tell for sure.

The bad: Haven't encountered anything really, this release seems pretty solid in dwarf mode.  The only real issue is it's a lot harder to generate old worlds due to the sheer number of events/historical figures.

Overall, with the new cities and stuff the world feels a lot more immersive.
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knutor

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #157 on: February 20, 2012, 08:59:01 pm »

@Temp

What's your Truetype set to in the init of 34.02?  Yes/No or a number?  Try a world gen, where all the new features are turned to 0 and aligned regions turned to none.  There are issues within some biomes, as a result of undying entities, causing lag.  Also, lastly if your using Graphics YES, make sure ya grab a compatible version, I had a real bad lag issue with graphics from the previous version, when I tried to use it in 34.01, *shrug*  Only thing that would move was a squirell image, and he was supposed to be a rat.  Its not a good thing to mix version mods.  You said yours is vanilla, so its prolly not that.  Good luck, Knutor
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slink

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #158 on: February 21, 2012, 03:42:49 pm »

The Good:  This version seems to run faster on the same PRINT_MODE than 31.x did for me.  The fortress I built was not too much different from the ones in 31.x except that I let invaders come which I had not been doing.

The Bad: I can't generate large worlds anymore.  DF crashes, or at least the OS thinks it has stopped, in the mid 200s.  I was able to generate and play with a Pocket Region.  That stopped at about year 30 by itself.  I suppose this isn't so bad.  I liked being able to choose from a wide variety of biomes but given that no site has every resource anymore, and all sites have magma, a Pocket Region seems to supply what I need.  However, the difficulty in generating the Large Region is probably caused by all of the additional history, which I like to read, and of which there is little in 30 years.

The Ugly: Well I don't know if this was true in 31.x because I didn't allow invaders, but reclaim is a disaster.  My fortress first fell to an invasion of goblins, with trolls, riding voracious cave dwellers.  The trolls destroyed every building and the voracious cave dwellers appear to be undefeatable.  When I returned to reclaim the first time, a forgotten beast which I knew was present and sealed in the caverns below the fortress was in the first layer.  It killed all of my war dogs before my seven skilled axedwarves could get indoors.  They killed it, at the cost of two lives.  I lost three more to melancholy and berserkness.  The other two were alternating throwing tantrums while they made coffins and installed them for the burial of the 70-plus previous residents, plus the traders who were present at the fall of the fortress, plus their own fellows.  There were plenty of ghosts before it was done.  A small wave of migrants saved the day before one of the two could go berserk and kill the other.  It looked good, until the first Vile Darkness turned the loafing ex-invaders into enemies again.  I had disarmed and disrobed the trolls and most of the goblins, but there was nothing I could do about the four voracious cave dwellers.  The fortress fell again, with another 65 or so deaths mostly caused by those.  I was willing to try, try, again BUT when the second reclaim team showed up there were TWO forgotten beasts in the first level along with the two surviving voracious cave dwellers and a couple of stray goblins who had been hiding outdoors when the others were being disarmed.  There were none present when the fortress fell.  I consider this foul play, and wonder if the formula is one forgotten beast for every reclaim effort.  Do we get six forgotten beasts on the sixth try?  In the old version, 40d, we used to get a reclaim party sized to the difficulty of the reclaim, but we just get the same seven now no matter what is waiting.  I can mod the voracious cave dwellers into death if nothing else works, but there is nothing I can do with multiple forgotten beasts and only seven dwarves.

More Uglies: My military had a distressing habit of dropping all of their gear when they were told to stop killing an enemy they had already killed.  Instead of returning to their barracks and continuing training, they shucked everything on the grass and ran for the fortress, whereupon a Giant Kea stole all the best gear.  I finally got that stopped by making them go to station after a kill, so that they were at least indoors if they wanted to ditch the uniform and go AWL instead of training.  I had quite a few Dwarves killed by Everything-Men-and-Women.  I had many migrants show up with no work set despite their listed professions and lost animals to starvation because a listed butcher wasn't really one.  It's easy to say that you should examine every migrant closely, but when waves of 20 or 30 are coming in every season that seems a bit unreasonable.

And yes, it is an alpha.   ;D
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thvaz

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #159 on: February 21, 2012, 04:09:50 pm »

slink, you described what it looked like a FUN game, what are ugly in that? :)

For 34.02, I guess some of the issues got addressed, but the sewers remain a problem in adventure mode. And the werecreature infestation is incredibly annoying. And they are mostly useless in adventure mode, because where is the fun in killing unarmed peasants? It would be fun if different werebeasts had different moon phases to change. You would have always some werebeast to give you a challenge.
Does anyone knows if werecreatures ambush the player during the full moon? That would be great.

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slink

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.01
« Reply #160 on: February 21, 2012, 06:48:23 pm »

slink, you described what it looked like a FUN game, what are ugly in that? :)
Hard is fun.  Impossible is not fun.

I went ahead and played it as it stood since I had no choice.  They killed one forgotten beast and the other finished them off.  That gave me hope.  I sent in seven more and that second forgotten beast killed all seven without even slowing down.  And again.  And again, and this time there were two forgotten beasts again.  Then, against all odds, I tried it again, this time with seven top level wrestlers with chain mail shirts and caps, and four war dogs.  I thought maybe putting my points in armor instead of weapons might help.  The same two killed them all.  I doubt if they even scratched the beasts.  I give up.

I remember when reclaims came with a couple of dozen fully armed and armored military, plus war dogs.  Seven with the allowed embark points just doesn't hack it, and those are set at the time of worldgen.  I can't increase them now.  I could send in sacrificial teams carrying one steel battle axe per wagon times seven, then one steel chain mail and breastplate times seven, etc, etc, but where's the fun in that?  What I am going to do now is erase nine years of fortress history and generate a new world.  Whoopee, what fun.   ::)
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nenjin

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.xx
« Reply #161 on: February 21, 2012, 06:50:35 pm »

Quote
DF crashes, or at least the OS thinks it has stopped, in the mid 200s.

It probably isn't actually stopping. It's just so choked up the program only responds for a couple miliseconds every time it moves to a new year. I think my patience for world gen ran out at about the half hour mark, 220ish years.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:05:23 pm by nenjin »
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squishynoob

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.xx
« Reply #162 on: February 21, 2012, 07:18:24 pm »

From a modder's standpoint:


Good:
-all and any old bug fixes
-new multipurpose tools (interactions)
-a way to disable bogeymen in world gen without touching other night creatures. Ugh, I HATE f'ing bogeymen.

Bad:
- No control (at least none that I had the time to find out) over who settles in the towns: which kind of races will trade, and what they will bring (elves selling you bones, flesh, and possibly wood? Elves may be hypocrites, but modded races maybe not.)

Ugly:
- So many of the new creatures, and their giant copies, that I had to delete them from the raws to prevent them from cluttering my arena testing list. Not to sound an asshole, but many vanilla DF creatures feel all the same, pretty flavourless.
- Any inconsistencies between a player-controlled creature (adventurer) and AI-controlled. Granted, most of these were carried in by previous versions, and .34 actually removed some of them, but still they're far from nice.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:24:01 pm by squishynoob »
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TempAcc

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.xx
« Reply #163 on: February 21, 2012, 08:34:56 pm »

Alright, now that I actualy played fort mode, I can do some proper reviewing:

The good: adv mode is vastly improved both in terms of performance and features. Cities, dungeons, tombs and towers add alot to the gameplay not to mention the new powers and curses system. Its a nice framework to build a magic system on.
Fort mode has also been improved by a lot, the whole vampire hunt thing gives a nice thrill after the fort has taken care of initial fortress stablishment issues and a more immediate use (and need) for prisons, also evil regions are more dangerous and a lot more interesting due to freaking weather and the new undead.
Technically the game also feels considerably faster then the other versions.

The bad: Adv mode has some minor inconsistencies with friendly undead (altough that was probably because I was a vampire at the time I met them) which remain friendly after you attack them and me being able to take any equipment that isn't in a shop with no noticeable penalty.
Fort mode undead can be a bit too much problematic since they rise up really fast after being defeated. I've ran into problems hauling the bodies around to be dumped in a pit and seeing it fail because the corpse revived on the way to the garbage dump, almosy just after being downed. There's also some FPS inconsistencies with it rising and dropping at random times, but that is probably caused by the evil weather in my embarks.

The ugly: version 34.02 hates my guts and is slow as hell. Version 34.01 works fine but has the problems 34.02 fixes, crashing when I order workshops from previous embarks (IE during a reclaim) to be deconstructed or during save/load.
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slink

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Re: The good, the bad and the ugly - Feedback thread for 34.xx
« Reply #164 on: February 21, 2012, 10:39:39 pm »

Quote
DF crashes, or at least the OS thinks it has stopped, in the mid 200s.

It probably isn't actually stopping. It's just so choked up the program only responds for a couple miliseconds every time it moves to a new year. I think my patience for world gen ran out at about the half hour mark, 220ish years.
I saw it was advancing ver-r-ry slowly, but then the OS decided the program had to close, and offered to let me look for a solution online, so I guess it thought the game had actually gone dead.
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