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Author Topic: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?  (Read 4865 times)

Matthmatt1213

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Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« on: October 08, 2012, 09:03:39 pm »

So I've been looking around the forums, and while I found a thread with plenty of speculation as to how a railgun would work, I have been unable to find a thread made after the introduction of mine carts that has truly applied dwarven science to the Dwarven Railgun. I'm quite surprised by this, considering how much !!Science!! has been applied just to get some extra booze and other goods off of caravans by use of mermaid and sea serpent farming. Ladies and Gentledwarves, I suggest we apply liberal amounts of !!Science!! to this idea. Not only should we work together to design the deadliest railgun, preferably with large amounts of either red liquid involved, but we should make it reloadable, cost-effective, and (hopefully) not over-complicated. While we're at it, we should probably test EXACTLY how the physics of being IN a railgun work. I'm no genius, but if enough of us work together, the most fearsome titans will be killed in the most dramatic way possible with the pull of a lever. Now, !!Science!! awaits!
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Re: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2012, 09:06:49 pm »

I just started a new fortress... Hmm... Ill have to do research on minecarts, but I may just have to look into building this railgun...
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Since when has Dwarf Fortress been about doing things the easy way?

I do believe that it is in part about unnecessarily abusing the opportunities that are presented to you.

Andal

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Re: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 09:29:01 pm »

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When I was reorganizing my inventory to fit all by books on life and death into various bags and things, I looked at my inventory and saw that I was multigrasping a necromancer slab.  It was pretty hilarious.
I think that would be an excellent way to impart the critical lessons of life and death to the ignorant masses.

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Re: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 09:45:04 pm »

I have a general theory set up. If said theories hold true then I can expand upon my basic design to try and do a railgun that fires two minecarts side by side.

Questions, since I've never used minecarts:

1. How many z levels would it take to reach a terminal velocity? (Terminal meaning fatal, not maximum velocity)
2. Can tracks be powered so that the minecart can move in an upward spiral?
3. What can I use to temporarily open a floor tile just long enough to accept the minecart for automated reload? Will a floor grate work?


General idea:

Minecart "clip" is set up x amount of levels above kill box. Victims Test subjects will enter said kill box and be sealed in. Kill box is 30 tiles long by 2 tiles wide. Test subject trips the firing mechanism, which releases the shot onto a roller which gives initial velocity. Shot travels down x number of z levels, moves through a temporarily opened floodgate, down the kill box, through the test subject, and into a wall, which stops the shot. Shot drops through the open grate, which closes after it. Shot is then moved down a track, up a spiraling track and back into place for the next shot.

Questions, comments, flawed portions?
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Since when has Dwarf Fortress been about doing things the easy way?

I do believe that it is in part about unnecessarily abusing the opportunities that are presented to you.

Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 10:50:15 pm »

So I've been looking around the forums, and while I found a thread with plenty of speculation as to how a railgun would work, I have been unable to find a thread made after the introduction of mine carts that has truly applied dwarven science to the Dwarven Railgun.
...

A quick forum search for "Minecart" leads to:
SCIENCE: Quantifying minecart physics
Perpetual Motion Minecart Grinder & Other Weird Physics
Minecarts are for what? No, really
The "How Does Minecart" Thread

60 pages of minecart science and testing, some of which is applicable specifically to railguns.

Sutremaine

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Re: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 12:31:57 am »

Quick answers, because there's a lot to read through in the various minecart topics:
1. How many z levels would it take to reach a terminal velocity? (Terminal meaning fatal, not maximum velocity)
One may be sufficent if the minecart is heavy. Injuries from minecarts are extremely variable, with even wooden minecarts being able to break skulls and spines.

Quote
2. Can tracks be powered so that the minecart can move in an upward spiral?
Yes, and for various reasons this is the most efficient powered setup.

Quote
3. What can I use to temporarily open a floor tile just long enough to accept the minecart for automated reload? Will a floor grate work?
Grates, hatches, and bridges will all work. The tricky part is the timing, and keeping the minecart slow enough that it doesn't just skip over the gap.

Quote
Questions, comments, flawed portions?
Why is the killbox in the current design two tiles wide when tracks are only one tile wide?
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Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

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Re: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 01:03:33 am »

Quick answers, because there's a lot to read through in the various minecart topics:
Questions, comments, flawed portions?
Why is the killbox in the current design two tiles wide when tracks are only one tile wide?

It was originally my entrance hall. I dug it out before I found this thread. I wish I had found this first. I can still make it fire two at a time once I figure it out.
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Since when has Dwarf Fortress been about doing things the easy way?

I do believe that it is in part about unnecessarily abusing the opportunities that are presented to you.

Matthmatt1213

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Re: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 08:34:56 pm »

So I've been looking around the forums, and while I found a thread with plenty of speculation as to how a railgun would work, I have been unable to find a thread made after the introduction of mine carts that has truly applied dwarven science to the Dwarven Railgun.
...

A quick forum search for "Minecart" leads to:
SCIENCE: Quantifying minecart physics
Perpetual Motion Minecart Grinder & Other Weird Physics
Minecarts are for what? No, really
The "How Does Minecart" Thread

60 pages of minecart science and testing, some of which is applicable specifically to railguns.
There is quite a bit of research that has been done, but by no stretch of the imagination is it complete. I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Weapon Research and the Science of Fall Damage threads. Personally, I'm probably going to conduct some tests on dwarves (mainly immigrants) once I have a self-sufficent fortress specifically designed for the task (with invasions off, of course). Stuff like the average damage taken from different types of minecarts, and testing EXACTLY how effective rollers are by themselves, and seeing the effects of different heights, as well as combinations with different types. For instance, is there a scenario where a light wooden (or even adamantium) minecart would be more effective than one made of silver? Obviously, these minecarts would have a much lower impact, but perhaps a speedier delivery might help with long-range accuracy, and if your plan is to douse a goblin siege with magma, speed might be more important than the actual impact, and it might have quicker reload (though wooden minecarts would be useless in the above example). After all, you're going to be able to retrieve the adamantium minecarts (assuming you don't somehow atom-smash it), so a variety might be useful. Also, tests on skipping need to be done. We should try to discover the skipping distance over water and magma with different minecarts. Are they different based on minecart density, and if so, how much? Is it possible to manipulate this so you can make a minecart skip over, say, a magma pool as many times as possible, over as long of a distance as possible? We should remember that, as tempting as it may be to simply pound goblins, elves, or even HFS with steel slugs, railguns have much more potential than just direct attacks. Also, it might be fun (or potentially Fun) to load in some caged sperm whales and see how that affects things. Also, can we manipulate minecart derailing to, say, launch a dwarf OVER dangerous terrain and onto another track? Then you could have a dwarf-only entrance/exit to your fort that could be weaponized simply by changing the designation from ride to push, and adding some weight. Goblins, without minecarts, or even the knowledge of how to use them would stupidly stand on the track, giving you an easy killzone. This might also be a good use of minecart variety, even though heavier minecarts might have quicker acceleration, a lighter one, should, in theory, be launched farther. We should also check to see if fall damage can be dampened by minecarts if they land on another track. This could lead to more one-way transportation. Even if some of this stuff doesn't result in practical information, imagine the potential for what you could do in adventure mode! A pulled lever activates a series of latches which work as a timer. Meanwhile, the adventurer climbs into the minecart, and is soon launched over a chasm filled with magma, all the while shooting at flying enemies. And don't forget the megaproject potential. I for one would love my dwarves to be comforted by cooling mist that, instead of coming from one of those all-too-common waterfalls, comes from an automated minecart-railgun which launches a minecart across a pool of water, then turns it around and sends it back across the water. The best part of this design is, not only is it efficient, but with a few floodgates and pumps, you could easily drain the water and replace it with magma to weaponize it during a siege, making it not only an awesome, dwarf-calming construction, but an amazing front-line defense if you've called your dwarves farther in, effective against any mortal creature!

TL;DR summary: Minecart science is a novel, and we're still in the first chapter.
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Hmm. Now i've got "mountain goat soap thread" and something like kidney fiber and i've seen roasts made out of leather.
selling elven princess booze to a human shopkeeper will fetch some wild stories.

Matthmatt1213

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Re: Railgun !!Science!!, Anyone?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 09:43:41 pm »

Right, the tests should start soon hopefully, I've been having some issues with school, but the setup for the actual test chambers has begun, the infrastructure for the isolated portion of my fortress where the test subjects will live is nearly complete, and the ocean is half-empty.
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Hmm. Now i've got "mountain goat soap thread" and something like kidney fiber and i've seen roasts made out of leather.
selling elven princess booze to a human shopkeeper will fetch some wild stories.