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Author Topic: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!  (Read 37031 times)

Lycaeon

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 05:45:04 pm »

Interesting. The creature did retain its skills after transformation once I replaced the ANIMATE part of the reaction with RESURRECT. It seems animating a dead body prevents the retention of any skills.

Unfortunately, only the animation effect brings the body onto your side, while it immediately attacks you again if revived by resurrection.  :-\
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NonconsensualSurgery

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 08:18:05 pm »

Here's some more science for the thread. I've accidentally created a spell that selectively vaporizes creatures without HOMEOTHERM.

First, a basic targeted transformation interaction (polymorph). Put in interaction_standard.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The naturally hot creature it transforms you into, put in creature_domestic.txt or something.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Add this to the creature definition of your preferred testing race:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Most creatures have an internal temperature specified with [HOMEOTHERM:10071] or something and that overrides accumulated heat. Creatures without a fixed body temperature retain their old heat through the transformation!

This means the technique will work on alligators and bronze colossi, but not elephants or dwarves. It may also be of interest to people building custom races that will become very hot some of the time.
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monk12

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 09:35:03 pm »

Very interesting! I'll have to remember that one.

Reelya

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2012, 11:51:30 pm »

Multiple Transformations
If a creature is transformed, they cannot be transformed again until the first change wears off.  If the transformation is permanant, they are immune to any further transformations.  I had an adventurer with a custom interaction that allowed him to turn other people into wolves.  After I retired him in a town, I tried to kill him with a different adventurer, but he just transformed me and chopped me to bits when I got close.  However, using a different adventuruer, I used a interaction to permanantly transform myself into a werewolf-like creature (Yes, I like wolves. So what? :P), and when he tried to transform me, I got the message "<name> gestures! You fall on down on all fours!", but nothing about turning into a wolf.
That contradicts an issue i had with gender-swap potion i made in fortress mode. It was meant to instantly, and permanently, turn male dwarves into female and vice-versa (using caste affected and immune caste, and twin syndromes on the same drink). But what happened was that each dwarf who drank it rapidly cycled male-female-male-female and i got my alerts spammed with 100's of transformations per drink.

So that shows that permanently changed dwarves can have their "new' caste targeted to change into something else.

So there must have been something else at work in your game. My newly "female" dwarves we able to be targeted by a syndrome which only affects females (and turns them into males).

Any further intel on when a creature is considered a PET and when a working member of society ?

I had dwarves transformed into other creatures, always resulting in TAME PETS
I had dwarves transformed into other dwarf castes, resulting in perfectly normal Dwarves
I had PETS transformed into dwarfs, resulting in TAME dwarves, that otherwise work as usual (skills, labors, equipment) They do have no name though.
That also used to happen if you add [PET][COMMON_DOMESTIC] to a dwarf caste, or all dwarves, during worldgen. You can them buy "tame" dwarves at embark, with the normal labors allowed.

If you leave [PET] on dwarves they're all treated like animals (or only the castes you apply it too). it's possible to make an edible dwarf sub-race by adding [PET] and removing [INTELLIGENT]. they can be butchered and tanned by the other dwarves no problem then, since they're seen as edible creatures, even though they can technically marry or breed with the other dwarves.

Also, with [PET] and [TRAINABLE] or [HUNTING] you can train hunting or wardwarves. (with the normal "animal" limitations on squads / equipment). It remains to be seen what training a dwarf as a transformed wardog does once they return to "dwarf" form.

Basically, [PET], [INTELLIGENT] and being of the main entity species are the three factors taken into account for whether dwarves can have labors, i managed to mod in [INTELLIGENT] and remove [PET] for an orangutan once, I could assign labors fine, but he never actually started a job!! So you can actually get a labor screen for an animal with a bit of modding of the race, but doesn't show up in Dwarf Therapist. That was in 31.18 though, things might have changed ( a while ago, i think those were the only tags i needed)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 05:29:40 am by Reelya »
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Old Greg

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2012, 12:44:09 am »

Great stuff. I'm tentatively working on a mod that would heavily feature transformations, so this is mighty helpful.

The inability to transform previously transformed things is a crying shame, though. Really throws my plans for a loop... I'll fiddle around with it, and I'll definitely let you know if I come up with anything handy.

Dante

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2012, 01:59:54 am »

Relevant to my interests.

Most of my fortresses throng with puppies. I could make an interaction or syndrome which mutates puppies into dwarves for long enough to conscript them and send them to deal with a threat before killing them, right? For use in dire emergencies?

Slax

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2012, 07:38:07 am »

Transformations, you say?

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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2012, 07:38:39 am »

Interesting. The creature did retain its skills after transformation once I replaced the ANIMATE part of the reaction with RESURRECT. It seems animating a dead body prevents the retention of any skills.

Unfortunately, only the animation effect brings the body onto your side, while it immediately attacks you again if revived by resurrection.  :-\

Double check that the dwarf was friendly in life.
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simonthedwarf

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2012, 07:41:21 am »

Epic OP.

Someone (Masterwork, LFR) should use this information to make a shrine where you can turn wounded dwarves into golems. Kinda like dreadnoughts from Warhammer.
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Inmate

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2012, 11:26:50 am »

Just a slight issue I've noticed. The game seems to crash whenever I inflict any syndromes on a transformed creature at all, not just syndromes that try to transform a permanent transformation into something else. Has anyone else had this problem?
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2012, 11:42:42 am »

Epic OP.

Someone (Masterwork, LFR) should use this information to make a shrine where you can turn wounded dwarves into golems. Kinda like dreadnoughts from Warhammer.
I will be using that idea, for turning dwarves (healthy, old, wounded) into Obsidain Golems.
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Dienes

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2012, 11:51:01 am »

Interesting. The creature did retain its skills after transformation once I replaced the ANIMATE part of the reaction with RESURRECT. It seems animating a dead body prevents the retention of any skills.

Unfortunately, only the animation effect brings the body onto your side, while it immediately attacks you again if revived by resurrection.  :-\

Are you testing it the arena? If you leave the animating creature independent anything they raise will be independent too and thus hostile to them. Hit s or d while creating them to assign them a side.

Also doing some testing it looks like when using the resurrect interaction they will remain hostile unless you add [CE_ADD_TAG:NOTHOUGHT]. They still retain their skills and can learn new ones if they have NOTHOUGHT.
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Grimlocke

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2012, 11:53:37 am »

Additional info: Transforming a creature seems to heal all wounds, and the following syndrome amusingly has the occasional sideffect of making the affected creature go insane after some time (seen stark raving and melachonic so far). It also enables hunger and thirst in arena mode.

I suspect it might the combination of physical trauma and drowsyness, further science may be required.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, there is a golem interaction in the community spellbook thread. This seems to be a fairly popular request...
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RadHazard

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2012, 01:58:14 pm »

Multiple Transformations
If a creature is transformed, they cannot be transformed again until the first change wears off.  If the transformation is permanant, they are immune to any further transformations.  I had an adventurer with a custom interaction that allowed him to turn other people into wolves.  After I retired him in a town, I tried to kill him with a different adventurer, but he just transformed me and chopped me to bits when I got close.  However, using a different adventuruer, I used a interaction to permanantly transform myself into a werewolf-like creature (Yes, I like wolves. So what? :P), and when he tried to transform me, I got the message "<name> gestures! You fall on down on all fours!", but nothing about turning into a wolf.
That contradicts an issue i had with gender-swap potion i made in fortress mode. It was meant to instantly, and permanently, turn male dwarves into female and vice-versa (using caste affected and immune caste, and twin syndromes on the same drink). But what happened was that each dwarf who drank it rapidly cycled male-female-male-female and i got my alerts spammed with 100's of transformations per drink.

So that shows that permanently changed dwarves can have their "new' caste targeted to change into something else.

So there must have been something else at work in your game. My newly "female" dwarves we able to be targeted by a syndrome which only affects females (and turns them into males).

Really? That's interesting.  So far, ever time I've tried to transform someone already affected, it gives me the interaction message, but the transformation doesn't happen.  I haven't tried it with different-caste-but-same-species transformations, however.  I'll have to do some more !!science!! when I get home.
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Lycaeon

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Re: CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION !!Science!!
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2012, 03:17:55 pm »

Interesting. The creature did retain its skills after transformation once I replaced the ANIMATE part of the reaction with RESURRECT. It seems animating a dead body prevents the retention of any skills.

Unfortunately, only the animation effect brings the body onto your side, while it immediately attacks you again if revived by resurrection.  :-\

Are you testing it the arena? If you leave the animating creature independent anything they raise will be independent too and thus hostile to them. Hit s or d while creating them to assign them a side.

Also doing some testing it looks like when using the resurrect interaction they will remain hostile unless you add [CE_ADD_TAG:NOTHOUGHT]. They still retain their skills and can learn new ones if they have NOTHOUGHT.

That's exactly what I wanted! NOTHOUGHT it is then. Thanks! :)
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How can I shield you from the horror and the lies?
When all that once held meaning is shattered, ruined, bleeding
And the whispers in the darkness tell me we won’t survive?”
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