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Author Topic: Good regions being painfully good  (Read 66680 times)

Loud Whispers

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Good regions being painfully good
« on: February 19, 2012, 03:37:52 pm »

As it stands, good regions don't have anything going for them except good aligned creatures, and evil regions get all the fun >:3

So, what if good regions got their counterpart (yes has been suggested a few dozen times before), but instead of doing good, they follow the theme of being too good.

Blotches of light blue clouds rolling over your Dwarves, turning them into good aligned husks, or some particularly "good" counterpart. Then said good husks killing everything. Or maybe just converting your other Dwarves to the goodness!

Maybe it does something good, that would be unwanted? Like good rain that's so blissfully serene that it makes everything unconscious! Or maybe just happy ;P

Or at the very least, working good aligned plants that move ;)

Maklak

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 04:43:20 pm »

I'd be fine with something that makes Dwarfs happy, but not something that kills them. Good regions are working as intended, they are nice places to be in. The fact that some people like bad embarks for their challenge doesn't mean that over the top levels of !FUN! should be shoved down player's throats no matter where they embark. Sieges and megabeasts in the caverns are challenge enough for me, and I'd like to keep it that way, and have some embark zones, that don't kill my starting seven in less than a minute. 
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BurnedToast

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 04:49:30 pm »

Why should "good" forces convert your dwarves into murder machines? that... does not sound good at all.

If anything, I think good regions should be even less dangerous and more survivable then they are now... that way the game has a built in difficulty option of sorts. Embark on good regions as a newbie or when you just want to screw around, embark on evil when you want !!fun!!, and embark on normal for in-between.
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Neonivek

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 04:54:41 pm »

If good regions were really so valuable then everyone else would embark there as well but currently races avoid good regions as well.

Good should be dangerous for the same reasons Evil regions are dangerous. They arn't made for you.

Powerful creatures empowered by the land's magics. Seedlings that fly in the air and play music that puts you to sleep. possible conversion or transformations of your dwarves into harmless creatures (Fluffy Wamblers).
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dizzyelk

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 05:06:14 pm »

I can see badness happening to your dwarves in retribution. Like unicorns becoming your enemies if you hunt or joining you against sieges or something. Once farming becomes more difficult, good biomes could produce more food. Maybe good mists that turn the dwarves who get caught in it into pacifists?
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Neonivek

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 05:07:25 pm »

I can see badness happening to your dwarves in retribution. Like unicorns becoming your enemies if you hunt or joining you against sieges or something. Once farming becomes more difficult, good biomes could produce more food. Maybe good mists that turn the dwarves who get caught in it into pacifists?

Turned into Fuzzy bunny people?

I swear that is a reference to something.
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irmo

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 05:32:08 pm »

So, what if good regions got their counterpart (yes has been suggested a few dozen times before), but instead of doing good, they follow the theme of being too good.

Blotches of light blue clouds rolling over your Dwarves, turning them into good aligned husks, or some particularly "good" counterpart. Then said good husks killing everything. Or maybe just converting your other Dwarves to the goodness!

They're good regions. Why should they do something bad to you?
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TSTwizby

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 05:35:31 pm »

Okay, seriously? The whole point of good regions is to be the opposite of bad regions, and that doesn't mean 'the exact same thing as bad region relabeled to sound happy'. Good regions are supposed to be (relatively) easy to survive on, while evil regions kill you in seconds. That is the entire underlying concept. Changing this would be like making everywhere have aquifers, or making every biome be tropical or freezing. All it would do is take some variety out of the game.
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Neonivek

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 05:47:48 pm »

Actually TSTwizby good regions are supposed to run on concepts that we are supposed to attribute to being good. Creating an almost storybook appeal.

In all previous versions of Dwarf Fortress good regions were harder then ordinary regions (heck tougher then most evil regions). Not even that but they were even more annoying for dwarves to live in (fairies and pixies annoying you all the time)

Good regions should be as around as difficult to survive on as evil regions but for entirely different reasons.
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TSTwizby

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 06:14:45 pm »

I'm sorry. I guess I haven't really had the best experience with good regions. I've always had less trouble and found less dangerous animals on good regions than any others, except when I do stupid things like attacking unicorns. I've never seen fairies or pixies do anything at all. I can see no reason why those kinds of things should be a match in destruction for zombies and random plagues.
I'm sorry. I just don't see it.

Also, from the wiki:

DF2010
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Good biomes tend to have less aggressive and weaker creatures, except for the unicorn. Good regions also support the wild sun berry, which makes the best booze in the game. There are generally slight changes between Benign Good and Savage Good.

40d
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Good biomes tend to have less aggressive and weaker creatures, exception made for the pain-in-the-ass unicorn. Good regions also support the wild sun berry, which makes the best booze in the game. There are generally slight changes between Benign Good and Savage Good.

23a
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Good biomes tend to have less aggressive and weaker creatures. There are generally slight changes between Benign Good and Savage Good.

In what way have good regions always been as hard as evil regions?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 06:17:52 pm by TSTwizby »
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Live bait.
3 dwarfs out of 7 dead so far

Artanis00

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 06:24:29 pm »

Actually TSTwizby good regions are supposed to run on concepts that we are supposed to attribute to being good. Creating an almost storybook appeal.

In all previous versions of Dwarf Fortress good regions were harder then ordinary regions (heck tougher then most evil regions). Not even that but they were even more annoying for dwarves to live in (fairies and pixies annoying you all the time)

Good regions should be as around as difficult to survive on as evil regions but for entirely different reasons.

I have to agree. It's unfortunate they are called "good" and "evil" regions, though. Light is not Good and all that.

I think dizzyelk has the right idea with the wildlife. Good regions don't have to be immediately fatal, but one misstep and the wildlife turns aggressive. Trample too much grass, kill a unicorn, etc.

I also like the idea of inherent hazards. Precipitation that softens everything it touches, or clouds of sugar that rots teeth, flora that induces sleep, fluffy were-wamblers.
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Strange guy

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 06:26:56 pm »

While I've not embarked on one I've heard a little about the new evil regions. I agree that Good regions probably shouldn't be better embarks than neutral (though equal wouldn't be too strange), but they shouldn't be anywhere as near full out hostile as some of the more horrific effects that are now present. Maybe a bit limiting, which hostility if stepping outside of the limits, or annoying but should probably come with some benefits and shouldn't have anything like murder mists.
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TSTwizby

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 06:32:34 pm »

I think dizzyelk has the right idea with the wildlife. Good regions don't have to be immediately fatal, but one misstep and the wildlife turns aggressive. Trample too much grass, kill a unicorn, etc.

I actually kind of like this idea. I just don't think that there should be a direct analogue for features between evil and good biomes (evil mist that turns your dwarves into zombies - good mist that turns your dwarves into zombies). And while I can get behind the idea that light is not good, the idea that good is not good is a little harder to swallow.

I may have been overly harsh in my original post. Sorry about that.
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I got a female and male dragon on my embark. I got cagetraps on the exits but im struggling to find a way to make them path into it.
Live bait.
3 dwarfs out of 7 dead so far

Neonivek

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 08:59:03 pm »

Good shouldn't have mist at all. It should have its own problems completely seperate from the evil region.
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Babylon

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 09:10:19 pm »

I'm really strongly in favor of healing mist or rain in good regions,  This would be great for your wounded dwarves, but a giant hassle when it gets the animal you are hunting, or the goblins or titan you are fighting with.

I am sure there are other interesting things that could happen but that one in particular I think would make the regions considerably different than neutral ones.
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