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Author Topic: Good regions being painfully good  (Read 85432 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 09:19:54 pm »

So, what if good regions got their counterpart (yes has been suggested a few dozen times before), but instead of doing good, they follow the theme of being too good.

Blotches of light blue clouds rolling over your Dwarves, turning them into good aligned husks, or some particularly "good" counterpart. Then said good husks killing everything. Or maybe just converting your other Dwarves to the goodness!

They're good regions. Why should they do something bad to you?

Not something bad, just something too good. Too much of anything good kills you ;)

Il Palazzo

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2012, 09:31:55 pm »

Maybe it does something good, that would be unwanted? Like good rain that's so blissfully serene that it makes everything unconscious! Or maybe just happy ;P
A rainbow mist turning your dwarves into militant vegetarian teetotalling cat lovers. Or makes them attached to random plants or wild animals("don't you dare cutting down that tree, Urist!").
I can see how that would make good biomes difficult.
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Babylon

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2012, 09:47:20 pm »

Maybe it does something good, that would be unwanted? Like good rain that's so blissfully serene that it makes everything unconscious! Or maybe just happy ;P
A rainbow mist turning your dwarves into militant vegetarian teetotalling cat lovers. Or makes them attached to random plants or wild animals("don't you dare cutting down that tree, Urist!").
I can see how that would make good biomes difficult.

ooh, I like that, everything in a good biome adopts dwarves the way cats do.
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Vherid

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2012, 09:50:01 pm »

Ramapant overgrowth of vegetation.
Mists or sights that awe your dwarves with beauty, causing them to just stand and stare for a bit, even if being attacked.
Healing rain, meaning any invading goblins, you better bring them inside to kill them, or something.
More involvement with deities, OR ELSE, BECAUSE GOOD PEOPLE GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAYS.
"For the greater good" basis

Basically things shouldn't be outright hostile, or directly hostile, but they can be indirectly hostile and eventually hostile.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2012, 09:51:07 pm »

Maybe it does something good, that would be unwanted? Like good rain that's so blissfully serene that it makes everything unconscious! Or maybe just happy ;P
A rainbow mist turning your dwarves into militant vegetarian teetotalling cat lovers. Or makes them attached to random plants or wild animals("don't you dare cutting down that tree, Urist!").
I can see how that would make good biomes difficult.

ooh, I like that, everything in a good biome adopts dwarves the way cats do.

Would work too if they behaved like pets, Urist McTree being comforted by his trees.

Il Palazzo

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2012, 10:02:27 pm »

Only with wild animals it'd have to work in such a way that the animals wouldn't follow dwarves around. It would be the dwarves who follow the animals to their pastures.(let's say, when on break).
That way, you'd end up with half your fort chillin' out in the green valleys, under the magnificent trees etc. instead of partying at the well.
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Watsst

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2012, 12:35:03 am »

People keep saying that good areas are meant to be easier to survive on but I disagree. Currently there is no difference is survivability between normal areas and good areas, only in tree types, grasses, animals and plants. If these areas are as blessed as they are, they should be highly contested, and the idea of being overly good could work if used in the right way, but would depend on what dwarf fortress can currently do within its inner workings.

For example:
Healing Mists: Yes they heal your dwarfs, but in the same respects they should heal any injured ambushers or seigers. Perhaps healing works by an 'increasing metabolism to heal' premise, so dwarfs heal faster but also suddenly get hungry and thirsty. Maybe even have some creatures that are healed faster in mists than others due to also being good aligned, so a unicorn heals faster in 5 seconds of mist than the dwarf attacking it, which turns the tide of battle and lets him gore Urist to death.
Super Replenishment: Better watch out, cause your in really furtile lands. Your animals are breeding really fast, cats... cats everywhere. Fish and vermin replenish really fast (although fish dont currently replenish, it would be good to see lakes and rivers full of massive amounts of fish).
Born blessed: Normal creatures being born larger and stronger than normal, making them very very dangerous. Could apply to dwarves as well. They are being born in pristine locations with pure water, the freshest of air, and super crops.
Full of luck: Sometimes your just really lucky in a fight, or the same may be said for the goblins attacking you. Lucky shots that sometimes hit instead of missing, lucky dodges, etc. If toady doesnt like the idea of the areas being lucky, it could just be that with the creature being in such a pristine location, their really at their prime so are able to pull of something special.

All of these are good for your dwarfs, but in the same respect there good for anyone in the region. So its good, but not just good for you
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SuicideJunkie

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2012, 12:54:44 am »

Summary with some new suggestions at the end:
1) Healing (including enemies/prey) and Booze rains
2) Pacifist-ifying/Mood-improving/Resurrection (not zombies, actually alive) clouds
3) Fairies/etc frolicking through the fort, opening doors, jamming mechanisms
4) Wildlife adopting dwarves to make them wander off into the forest when idle/on break
5) Bigger, stronger, tougher wildlife on average
6) Faster breeding, particularly vermin like fish and mosquitoes.
7) Trees/wildlife entrancing dwarves to treat them like masterworks (suffered the tragedy of artnature defacement)
8) Plants able to grow through paved roads and floors, destroying them.
9) Metals and other non-organic materials suffer seasonal wear, leaving you to work with leather & wood.
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Murphy

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2012, 01:06:16 am »

There is plenty of folklore describing the otherworldly dimension aka the Feywild. It is not friendly at all - even the genuinely good denizens always have a twist. At the very best you could meet stuff that made you blissfully happy and destroyed your will to do anything. You could spend hundreds of years there as if they were a moment, and if you ever managed to leave, you'd die of old age instantly anyway. As another example we have someone challenging you to best them in dancing and singing and if you lost they made you their slave.

EDIT: Ok supposedly there are evil faeries (Unseelie Court) and the less-evil ones (Seelie Court). Neither are particularly nice, it's just about whether you have to offend them before they torture, humiliate, enslave or drive you to madness. And offending may be as easy as sitting down in a wrong place.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 01:16:33 am by Murphy »
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Eagleon

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2012, 01:37:05 am »

I posted this in the other thread, but this seems to be becoming more popular. A fountain of youth type artifact/effect in a region water source would be an instant source of trouble, should word get out - think hordes of peasants descending on your fortress, and getting angry if they aren't given access/just in general being a bickering angry mob if they can't manage to sustain themselves on the surroundings. Combined with good regions reacting to violence in hostile ways, and you have carnage you can ignore and watch, or take part in for !!fun!!

Also, your dwarves may not, themselves, be considered 'good' by the region - half of them would turn murderous if their supply of booze were cut off and they didn't have a bed, for instance. So why not make it react as such? Especially in Savage regions. You could have the ground and grass grabbing at their feet, the weather turn nasty (but just for them), water burst out in small flows to wash them in, bees chase them from hives, sand turn to quicksand, etc. All stuff that's plausibly survivable, but enough to scare a slightly less stubborn than normal dwarf straight. This would be good in some ways but bad in others - your overly negative dwarves would be in danger, but they might stop their tantrums afterwards and get back to work.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 01:40:18 am by Eagleon »
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King Mir

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2012, 02:56:04 am »

In terms of having a difficulty for the wildlife, the level of savagery should be the scale, not the goodness, IMO. Good regions should have varying levels of dangerous fauna based on that. (And dangerous flora if that ever makes it in).

But I like the idea of Good regions providing Buffs contra to how the evil stuff kills you. An invigorating rain could perhaps make anyone caught in it stronger, friend or foe.

Healing would be a nice effect. Just region wide healing, much like unread regions work. Your crippled dwarves would slowly grow their feet back.

Starver

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2012, 07:07:49 am »

Because of forum access errors, I was forced to rewrite a summary of my original attempt to post, last night, intending to post it later.  I appear to be slightly ninjaed (and am not on the same machine as I saved the rehash so can't post it right now anyway!) but one key point I had is something that has been skirted from both sides of the equation, but not the way I thought about it (unless I missed it, in which case, apologies!)...

The opposite of dead-husk inducing rain/mist/whatever in an evil zone would be... a rejuvenating area effect.  When I get back to that machine, I may post that saved summary, anyway, but here's the core of it: Even without considering what it would do to enemies (I'll admit that I didn't even think of that!), your Legendary craftsdwarf might revert to childhood, and while he was at it forget most/all of his knowledge in the process.

Thus the region area is 'good', but still troublesome.
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SuicideJunkie

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2012, 12:02:39 pm »

Urist McLegendary Armorsmith is caught in a youthful cloud!
Urist McLegendary has become a Peasant
Urist McLegendary has become a Child
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NTJedi

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2012, 12:40:00 pm »

As it stands, good regions don't have anything going for them except good aligned creatures, and evil regions get all the fun >:3

So, what if good regions got their counterpart (yes has been suggested a few dozen times before), but instead of doing good, they follow the theme of being too good.

Good regions are working as intended for players seeking a more peaceful environment.  If you want more danger then embark in more evil areas.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2012, 12:47:40 pm »

Actually, if there are effects to good regions, why not things that are more subtle?

For example, what if it gradually healed trauma, so that nobody could be "doesn't care about anything" anymore, and all start grieving heavily whenever things die (to the point that they might grieve for the poor cow that had to die for their supper).  At the same time, however, they shouldn't actually tantrum, but they have mopey feelings.  Maybe they get support from all their friends to help them get out of it?  But they will grieve for a while, and won't be as productive while grieving.

"Mellow clouds" that you walk into and just... whoah... dude... did you ever just sit and... heeheehee... man... you know?  Basically, a cloud of Lotus Eater Machine that makes dwarves happy and never want to leave, lowering productivity until you can get them out from there.

Most normal animals don't run away or fight back.  Why would they?  They just turn big puppy dog eyes at you and ask why you just killed their mommy.

Clouds of regrowth or the like bring wildlife and plants back when destroyed at a rapid pace.  Basically, never run out of wood or herbs to pick.

Clouds of fertility or the like make pregnancies much faster.  Yay for all the happy children playing together!
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