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Author Topic: Stupid embark tricks  (Read 21808 times)

Jimmy

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2013, 05:03:47 am »

You are aware that the thread had long since expired?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A lot of what was written prior to the necro isn't relevant. For example, the return on the ore to bar ratios has drastically changed.

So yes, the new "ideal" embark profile would probably include:

1. Bituminous Coal. Each stone produces 9 coke bars. Repeat production consumes fuel, net gain = 8 fuel bars. To start production, a log from deconstructing your wagon can be burned to produce the first fuel bar.
2. 1:4 iron ore to flux stone ratio to maximize steel production.
3. 2 bars of steel can produce 2 giant axe blades, which when melted return 150% of their production materials due to a bug, meaning 2 bars are converted into 3 bars at a cost of 4 fuel.

Let's convert these costs into points value for comparison. Assume we want 100 steel bars as a goal.

Scenario 1: 2 bars of steel + bituminous coal
2 steel = 300 points
Fuel needed for axe blade cheat: 4 bars per 1 steel produced. 98 * 4 = 392 bars of fuel. 392 / 8 = 49
49 bituminous coal = 147 points
Total: 447 points

Scenario 2: 1 iron ore, 4 flux + bituminous coal
1 iron ore = 24 points
4 flux = 24 points
Fuel needed for ore smelting: 1 to smelt iron ore into 4 iron bars, 2 per pig iron, 2 per steel = 9 fuel for 4 bars of steel, or one full bituminous coal, plus a second log from your wagon turned to charcoal
Fuel needed for axe blade cheat: 4 bars per 1 steel produced = 96 *4 = 384 bars of fuel. 384 / 8 = 48
49 bituminous coal = 147 points
Total: 195 points

Ultimately, this means you have a choice. You can spend 44 points on a copper pick to start digging right away, or spend 100 points on an anvil plus additional spend on ore to delay your digging and await steel production. Assuming you're willing to sacrifice the first month of spring without significant digging, you can probably embark with the following:

1 iron anvil
50 bituminous coal
1 iron ore
4 flux stone
Total: 298 points

This has everything you need for 100 steel bars, minus the time required to create them. This assumes you're happy to exploit the game producing and melting axe blade trap components for extra steel. To purchase the iron ore and flux stone to produce the 100 bars without this exploit would cost 1200 points without any anvil or fuel.

Alternatively if you don't want steel, bismuth bronze costs 6 points per copper ore, 6 points for cassiterite and 3 points for bismuthinite, meaning a total of 16 bars of bismuth bronze for 21 points in ore cost, minus fuel of 1 bituminous coal, bringing the total to 24 points. This is 1.5 points per bar of bismuth bronze. 16 bars is a good start on your needs. 3 more points for another piece of bituminous coal and you have enough fuel to make 8 metal items, including picks. This, however, requires the 100 point anvil investment again.

Minimalist embarks are fun but a bit boring if you're going for a zero point challenge. I've done it before you could turn a log from your wagon into a training axe to chop more trees. I'd imagine a zero point embark would be impossible without a water source however. To guarantee survival, the bare minimum you'd need is a single 44 point copper pick. This is cheaper than bringing your own anvil, which you can get with the first caravan. On a map with wood and plants to harvest, embarking with seven peasants and no supplies is quite reasonable. Wagon gets deconstructed, one log to make carpenter's workshop, another log is turned into a training axe, this axe is used to cut more trees for building materials and you gather plants to farm above ground crops. Unfortunately you have no means of digging until the caravan arrives with your first pick.
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Mohreb el Yasim

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2013, 01:25:23 pm »

You are aware that the thread had long since expired?
it is always better to revive threads corresponding to a question then having 100 thread all speaking of the same thing, and then when someone will search the forums (there are few i know but should be encouraged) people can find more information and less clutter.
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Mohreb el Yasim


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Koremu

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2013, 02:59:12 pm »

You are aware that the thread had long since expired?
it is always better to revive threads corresponding to a question then having 100 thread all speaking of the same thing, and then when someone will search the forums (there are few i know but should be encouraged) people can find more information and less clutter.
Except for the fact that the first 3 pages of the thread are outdated.
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It's a dwarf.  Their natural habitat is "trapped on the wrong side of a wall".

Flinging children halfway across the map to land in magma is good, wholesome fun, but extramarital reproduction?  Why, that's just unseemly!

Rutilant

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2013, 03:03:25 pm »

This is a forum, not a wiki - it's meant to be a little, you know, conversational.
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Necrisha

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2013, 03:13:31 pm »

yeah, like I personally figured out the ambusher one first while I was in college and until I decided I liked the cage trap and tame to butcher method better I used the trick exclusively.
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EDIT: Keas restricted to tropical forests where they belong.  Those evil, EVIL, foul little things.
 
Edit: The baby murderer became a friend of the fortress, which started a loyalty cascade, and now most of the squad is dead.

Aerie

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2013, 01:43:57 am »

Embark with the following:

1 copper ore
1 boulder
1 anvil
As many cats as possible.
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Larix

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2013, 06:24:20 am »

Alternatively, the minimum no-trade embark is
1 lump of native copper
1 iron anvil
106 embark points are enough! (if your civ has no access to native copper and/or iron ores, it'll become more expensive - malachite is not fire-safe, so you'll need to take a random fire-safe stone along, which raises the cost to 9 points, in which case you can also take tetrahedrite and hope for a silver bar on smelting.)
You can build a functioning fort on that basis, the only nuisance is that anyone who wants yarn cloth for a mood will die horribly; and you'll have to build a trade depot to avoid unwanted gifts from caravans gone mad.

To ease the early life of a fortress, i like to take some raw materials along - bituminous coal for plentiful fuel without the need to manage logging operations, copper ore and cassiterite for cheap bronze. Throw out the splints, crutches and the wheelbarrow from the starting setup, as well as most cloth - yarn and silk fulfil the same basic functions as plant cloth, and are cheaper; thread is another point cheaper than the finished cloth and provides starter training to your weavers. And even if you embark in a desert, a wheelbarrow won't cost you more than the three embark points for a log and a bit of work at the carpenter's shop.
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MarcAFK

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2013, 07:02:06 am »

Oh sweet irony, just today i finally got around to reading this thread which was sitting around the bottom of my notify list, and now here it is, alive once more!
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

edgefigaro

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2013, 04:40:33 pm »

Embark with a male and female cave croc. Build a nest box in a room and hole up. Pen all of the crocsplosion in the entry hall when you are ready to rejoin the world.

Who needs a military when you have 40 cave croc hatchlings as guards?
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ChuckWeiss

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Re: Stupid embark tricks
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2013, 11:41:57 pm »

PTW
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