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Author Topic: Brush-based building and designation (One interface to unify them all)  (Read 4743 times)

isitanos

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New! YOU CAN VOTE FOR THIS BY SEARCHING (Ctrl+f) FOR Brush-based building and designation ON THE ETERNAL SUGGESTION VOTING.


Building walls, roads, floors and similar stuff is a right pain in the ass right now in DF. The end product is basically a bunch of one-tile objects, but you still have to designate them in patches that you enlarge with 'u' and 'k', rinse and repeat until you're more insane than your dwarves. Placing 20 doors of a specific material is also very tedious, as each door requires more than 4 keystrokes.

My suggestion to fix this draws a little bit from how the mining and burrow designations work, and how painting programs work.

Overall idea

Paint your constructions on the screen, with or without an associated material. Then paint over that with materials you pick from what you currently have (or optionally, even what you don't have yet), to assign (or change as many times as you want) the future building's material.


Example steps
  • Select a building type (say, wall)
  • Select a material i.e. "anything" - which picks the closest stuff, "any wood"/"any rock"/etc, or those 69 granite rocks that you just dug up, or even "no material" (for now)
  • Draw on the tiles where you want to build walls. 3D designation also works, just like for mining.
  • If you run out of materials, the brush reverts back to "no material" mode
  • Changed your mind about the materials? Pick a material but don't pick a building type, paint with the resulting brush, and you can change the material of any already planned out building elements. i.e. change the materials of the whole tower (walls, ,floors and stairs) from granite to microcline in three keystrokes
So basically you can designate some material-less "floor", and then paint half of it to be made with microcline and the other with granite. Or, directly paint "microcline floors". And you can come back and change the material type by painting again over what you designated.


Implied underlying changes

The only real problem I see with my idea is that roads and maybe other buildings use less stones than they have tiles... if I remember correctly. So Toady would have to auto-group some adjacent tiles (the grouping should ideally be predictable and show when you paint) to be built at once with one stone.


For the full experience...
  • Once you have a brush system in place, might as well go the whole mile and allow copying an existing designation and use that as a multi-tile brush. Of course keeping with what I said above, you can copy only the building placement, or both the placement and the material. And save brushes for later use.
  • You need to be able to preview what you're drawing when designated rectangle regions, and click and drag for those in addition to the keyboard would be extremely nice.
  • Unify (b)(C)onstruction, (b)(w)orkshops, (b)(p)lots and (d)esignation as well as (w) burrows under this system, and we'll all be happy dwarves. After all, a workshop is just a different brush, you could pick it from a palette inside the same screen as constructions.
Extra ideas
  • Allow player to pick a material he doesn't have yet or has run out of. Designation should "sleep" until it can claim a material to be built with. Plan out your whole tower, nay, whole fortress in one fell swoop and dig out the necessary materials later. But this opens a topic wider than I want to discuss in this thread: why can't workshop also just accept jobs and wait for the material to exist, and so on...
  • Placing a workshop, door, etc. on an undug spot should automatically cause dwarves to dig it out. This would allow the awesome ability of having 5 workshops and their doors as a brush, a dining room with its chairs, tables, statues, etc. as a brush, hell why not an entire beginner's fortress as a multi-Z-levels brush.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 04:34:54 pm by isitanos »
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isitanos

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Re: Brush-based building and designation (One interface to unify them all)
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 08:06:04 pm »

Man, I'm really surprised that I get no replies to what I consider a simple and well-designed replacement for the current mess. And not too hard to make for Toady as it's rather similar to the current Notes and Burrows screens.

Or does everyone find designating roads or buildings with the current system fun and efficient?
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Dae

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Re: Brush-based building and designation (One interface to unify them all)
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 09:16:28 pm »

I heartily approve, which is why I don't say much about it.
I most support the ability to plan construction without the needed materials right now, or specifying "no material" for "don't bother with it for now".
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fenylal

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Re: Brush-based building and designation (One interface to unify them all)
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 07:52:46 am »

I was just thinking along the same lines! That way Toady could add mouse support for construction as well. Although I don't think it would be as easy as just reusing the code for designations, since each building still needs a specified resource/furniture. Perhaps when in the screen for choosing resources, we could select a resource and then paint/designate on the map? And then you could have a last alternative saying something like 'use any resource when available'.... just a thought.
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Z1000000m

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Re: Brush-based building and designation (One interface to unify them all)
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2012, 08:10:00 am »

I approve. Current contsrcution designation system limits what you can designate at one time, and makes building anything a pain in the ass.
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isitanos

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Re: Brush-based building and designation (One interface to unify them all)
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2012, 04:08:44 pm »

I was just thinking along the same lines! That way Toady could add mouse support for construction as well. Although I don't think it would be as easy as just reusing the code for designations, since each building still needs a specified resource/furniture. Perhaps when in the screen for choosing resources, we could select a resource and then paint/designate on the map? And then you could have a last alternative saying something like 'use any resource when available'.... just a thought.
Read my OP completely ;) . It's basically a more elaborate/"ready to implement" version of what you just said. Edit: I just added a better summary of the idea, I guess it wasn't clear enough if you didn't understand right away.
And thanks for your support. I really hope Toady spends some time on this after the current bugfixing.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 04:21:06 pm by isitanos »
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eux0r

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good suggestion, nothing to add, but im afraid it wont be implemented for quite some time, since other stuff is way further up the esv and toady doesnt implement any suggestions anyways, at least at the moment he is busy with the planned core development(aka the arcs).
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YetAnotherStupidDorf

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No one answered because Suggestion subforum is meaningless anyway. No one important read anything there, and anyway proposing sane UI is heresy - it is not how Toady* rolls, after all.

*And various elitist pricks with logic like "I went all trouble to learn this insane UI and new players now could have it easier? Veto! How then I can feel better than them?".
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isitanos

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Just try to draw Toady's attention to this thread and to vote for this idea on the ESV, instead of lamenting. I've seen Tarn listen to suggestions, for example he did clearly read and implement part of the ideas from the Underground Improvement thread.
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Silverionmox

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The Toady One truly performs his wonders in mysterious ways.

Something I'd rather have is the ability to plant to build constructions on planned constructions, so you can design a ten-storey tower and be done with it, instead of waiting for every tier to be finished to plan the next.



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isitanos

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Re: Brush-based building and designation (One interface to unify them all)
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 04:16:14 pm »

The Toady One truly performs his wonders in mysterious ways.

Something I'd rather have is the ability to plant to build constructions on planned constructions, so you can design a ten-storey tower and be done with it, instead of waiting for every tier to be finished to plan the next.
Good idea (that would fit well into the interface I'm proposing), but with the way dwarves tend to block their own access to planned constructions and/or lock themselves in, it would be rather useless. First Toady needs to implement a dependency system between planned constructions so that the ones which would block others get built last.
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Silverionmox

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Re: Brush-based building and designation (One interface to unify them all)
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 06:16:42 pm »

Therefore a planning system ought to take building stages in account, IMO. Beyond that dwarves just need to learn to start with the corners and, more importantly, to deploy and clean up scaffolding themselves.

I wrote something similar here, take a look for inspiration: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44610.msg860070#msg860070 .
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