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Author Topic: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher  (Read 30650 times)

Quarterblue

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2014, 07:50:54 am »

If you clean up the Mod Launcher, please add Modest Mod (and patch and modules, they're fairly lightweight and would be a good addition even for "vanilla" players.
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hermes

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2014, 10:50:58 am »

Possibly... since the Modest mod is at heart a bug-patch it will be redundant once the new DF comes out and then for several weeks of bug-fixed new versions Toady releases and then for several weeks/months more as people find bugs that Toady didn't resolve and gradually patch them... Though I've never used it I agree it could be useful, but probably a few months from now?
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hermes

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2014, 08:10:16 pm »

So Imma gonna have to update this for the new popcap system and probably add a couple of DF2014 mods.  If anyone cares to chime in, what kind of control would be good for the popcap?

The new system is, IMO, a bit ugh.  Basically there are two caps now; they both stop migrants, one doesn't stop births and the other does stop births.  There is also still the baby %age cap which works with both.  It just seems like too much control over the fort demographics, which I don't like.  I'm inclined to make the "Pop Cap" in the launcher just mean the immigration cap, and not stop births.  It isn't a problem to add controls for all the caps, but it seems a little obtuse and non-user friendly.  Any thoughts on this, lemme know.

Any other new init options that deserve launch controls?
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Nopenope

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #63 on: August 11, 2014, 08:19:55 pm »

Making it look for "dfhack" instead of "df" on Linux would be a nice addition.
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palu

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2014, 08:25:50 pm »

Can you add an option for print mode? Perhaps have an advanced settings tab, with that, the popcaps, and other settings like path costs. Also please add sme of the other options like pet coffins. I'd prefer to have every init option in there, or at least an init editor, but whatever you can do is fine.

Edit: The strict popcap also stops the first two migrant waves, so it may be useful.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 08:56:08 pm by palu »
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Urist MacFrench

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2014, 05:28:49 pm »

Perhaps have an advanced settings tab [...] I'd prefer to have every init option in there, or at least an init editor, but whatever you can do is fine.
I agree with that.

PeridexisErrant

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2014, 08:54:45 am »

Any particular objections to releasing the source?  There's a lot of discussion at the moment about a good way to add mods to something like a Starter Pack (including toggling them etc).  This seems to be both philosophically different and the best example we have!
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hermes

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2014, 09:09:00 am »

Any particular objections to releasing the source?  There's a lot of discussion at the moment about a good way to add mods to something like a Starter Pack (including toggling them etc).  This seems to be both philosophically different and the best example we have!

I saw that discussion, and recalled that I offered the source to someone (dricus or fricy?) some months ago but they didn't follow up.  The offer is still open, but to be honest I think those guys are putting a whole lot more planning and careful thought into what they're doing and will probably come up with something much better!  But if they want to see what I did for mods or other stuff I'd be happy to show them.  (Main objection to releasing the whole source is it is spaghetti code I did in two weeks and was not planned out at all.)

edit - Oh and I forgot, did those guys look at Valdemar's mod manager?  It's in Python and the source code is linked.

Can you add an option for print mode?  Perhaps have an advanced settings tab [...] I'd prefer to have every init option in there, or at least an init editor, but whatever you can do is fine.
I agree with that.

Hehe, big requests!  The graphical display options... doable.  Adding other options also doable.  The main reason I haven't done that already is it is a slippery slope towards chucking everything in there.  I feel the important options are already there, SDL options aside, is there anything in particular you think is important?

I don't really see the need for having all options/a text editor when you can just open the file in notepad.  A button for that might be useful, though.

Making it look for "dfhack" instead of "df" on Linux would be a nice addition.

Sorry, Nopenope I don't quite follow this... you mean the DF OS recognition file?  It doesn't find your linux version of DF?  If you meant that you should be able to change it from the launcher's init file.  Or did you mean something else?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 09:11:55 am by hermes »
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PeridexisErrant

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2014, 09:22:30 am »

Any particular objections to releasing the source?  There's a lot of discussion at the moment about a good way to add mods to something like a Starter Pack (including toggling them etc).  This seems to be both philosophically different and the best example we have!

I saw that discussion, and recalled that I offered the source to someone (dricus or fricy?) some months ago but they didn't follow up.  The offer is still open, but to be honest I think those guys are putting a whole lot more planning and careful thought into what they're doing and will probably come up with something much better!  But if they want to see what I did for mods or other stuff I'd be happy to show them.  (Main objection to releasing the whole source is it is spaghetti code I did in two weeks and was not planned out at all.)

edit - Oh and I forgot, did those guys look at Valdemar's mod manager?  It's in Python and the source code is linked.

It's only recently that I've come far enough to be horrified at my early code... but I know what you mean.  I've bookmarked the DFMM for later since it does sound useful.  I'm a fan of publicly opening up even spaghetti though (see eg... my github) - it's unlikely to drag anyone backwards, and it might inspire a simple port of some of the cooler options like the tileset and colour previews - unique to my knowledge!  Good to know that private sharing is open though, and thanks for that.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2014, 03:37:17 pm »

This thing implements a great deal of the features I outlined here for a new DF launcher.  If a few features (see below) were added, this would be what I had outlined, this would be that launcher.
First is minor thing, implementing a link to the Bay 12 Games donations page on the same page as the Devlog.
Second requires a bit more effort, and that is being able to select utilities to be started up when certain editions launch.  Could include which version the utility is compatible for, so people know which ones are possible.
Third requires the most effort.  Implementing a way to be able to search for and download mods, utilities, and graphics packs directly from DFFD.  For Total Conversions, Graphics Packs that modify init files and various creature entries, and Utilities such as DFhack, a new "edition" would be selectable from the drop down menu.

I could try and help implement these if you want any assistance...
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hermes

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2014, 07:19:08 pm »

Donate button is a good idea I should do.

Launching other utilities... I've looked at before, and fiddled around with implementation but it's not something I can really get behind.  In part for the same reasons as the modding issue...

I saw your mod browser program (haven't tried it yet) and I think it's a great idea.  But the main problem with mods, and I think this stands for utilities as well, is the lack of a standardised format.  Mods are packed with different directory structures and often include multiple versions/options in one package. 

There are two ways to overcome this I think.  The first is for the community to agree upon a standardised header file which would identify the mod, creator, version number, directory structure and install options which the installer would parse.  This would probably require some auxiliary program or net code to have the modder fill out a form and generate the necessary file.

Secondly, which is probably better but more work, would be to raid DFFD for most of that information, which it mostly has, and then spend time developing algorithms that analyse the mod's file structure and try to install in a smart manner.  And hope that modders don't create labarynthine zip files.

On top of all that you have DFHack scripts and raw clashes and... It makes my head hurt thinking about it!  On second thought, you'd probably want a combination of the above two methods, and ignore mods on DFFD that don't comply to the format...?

That said, I use Mod Manager (I think) for Skyrim, and they have clearly done a great job of a complex install process linked to online resources.  It is possible.  But you'd need to spend a lot of time planning for every eventuality. 
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2014, 08:11:59 pm »

I saw your mod browser program (haven't tried it yet) and I think it's a great idea.  But the main problem with mods, and I think this stands for utilities as well, is the lack of a standardised format.  Mods are packed with different directory structures and often include multiple versions/options in one package.

We need to get a standard made.
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Quote from: 2016 Election IRC
<DozebomLolumzalis> you filthy god-damn ninja wizard dragon

PeridexisErrant

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Re: Manila Dwarf Fortress Launcher
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2014, 08:45:40 pm »

I saw your mod browser program (haven't tried it yet) and I think it's a great idea.  But the main problem with mods, and I think this stands for utilities as well, is the lack of a standardised format.  Mods are packed with different directory structures and often include multiple versions/options in one package. 

There are two ways to overcome this I think.  The first is for the community to agree upon a standardised header file which would identify the mod, creator, version number, directory structure and install options which the installer would parse.  This would probably require some auxiliary program or net code to have the modder fill out a form and generate the necessary file.

Secondly, which is probably better but more work, would be to raid DFFD for most of that information, which it mostly has, and then spend time developing algorithms that analyse the mod's file structure and try to install in a smart manner.  And hope that modders don't create labyrinthine zip files.

On top of all that you have DFHack scripts and raw clashes and... It makes my head hurt thinking about it!  On second thought, you'd probably want a combination of the above two methods, and ignore mods on DFFD that don't comply to the format...?

We need to get a standard made.

/this thread

How's this for a standard?  "Mods are a named folder in '$mod_folder', containing a raw folder" 

The launcher can then parse which files aren't required, and eg delete any non-raw folders and files that aren't a readme or config file.  I just posted python code to do that here.  Pre-installed mods are instantly compatible, and that seems to be the most popular mode of distribution. 

More complex things *always* have to be reducible to this format or they're unusable anyway, and hopefully once this catches on - possibly with diff-based mod merging - we'll see more of a swing back to atomic/minimalist mods which are more open to user editing. 
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 Donations here.
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