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Author Topic: Fireproofing one caste (How to change materials for just one caste)  (Read 6202 times)

WillowLuman

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Fireproofing one caste (How to change materials for just one caste)
« on: February 23, 2012, 11:53:02 pm »
I want to make just one caste fireproof, but FIREIMMUNE/FIREIMMUNE_SUPER only affect imp/dragon breath attacks, not any other kind of heat, and SELECT_MATERIAL affects the whole species, even if defined within only one caste. Any ideas?

EDIT: To spare thread reading, it's possible. You just need to make a copy of all tissue templates, their materials, and the relevant body detail plans. You can then change the properties. This is usable for any caste-specific materials.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 12:16:10 am by HugoLuman »
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arzzult

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 12:45:31 am »
I believe if you play around a bit you can first define the materials for one caste as fire proof in that cast, then define the materials for all other casts after that.
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Naryar

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 04:56:40 am »
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
      [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
      [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]

Pretty sure it's this. Add FIREIMMUNE and FIREIMMUNE_SUPER for good measure.
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simonthedwarf

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 06:04:55 am »
Contact the creator of the LFR mod. She has solved this.
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NobodyPro

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 06:09:41 am »
I was thinking of a really elaborate way to do this:
Make an extra version of all the bodily tissues and materials, hair, muscle, fat etc.
Make sure they have [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE], [IGNITE_POINT:NONE].
Make another set of BPs under different categories i.e. CATEGORY:UPPERBODY2, CATEGORY:HEAD2 etc.
Define those BPs to use the tissues you prepared earlier instead of the default tissues.
Make that fire breathing case using these BPs.
...
Profit.

It'll take a while but it'll work.
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WillowLuman

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 11:12:52 pm »
Quote from: Naryar on February 24, 2012, 04:56:40 am
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
      [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
      [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]

Pretty sure it's this. Add FIREIMMUNE and FIREIMMUNE_SUPER for good measure.

But that affects the entire species, not just one caste.

I think I'll have to make a copy of every body material, tissue, and BP just for one small change, but what must be done must be done. Is there any way to copy tissues (and nothing else) from another creature, that already is fireproof?
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2012, 12:13:13 am »
Quote from: HugoLuman on February 24, 2012, 11:12:52 pm
Quote from: Naryar on February 24, 2012, 04:56:40 am
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
      [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
      [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]

Pretty sure it's this. Add FIREIMMUNE and FIREIMMUNE_SUPER for good measure.

But that affects the entire species, not just one caste.

I think I'll have to make a copy of every body material, tissue, and BP just for one small change, but what must be done must be done. Is there any way to copy tissues (and nothing else) from another creature, that already is fireproof?

I'm fairly sure that just about everything related to body structure and tissues is caste-level.  There were only two or three tokens, like BIOME or MEGABEAST that were creature-level only, although that was back in 31.whatever.

You can have different castes with entirely different body structures, and back in 31.01, I built castes where one was a spider person, one was a snake person, etc. 
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WillowLuman

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2012, 12:15:27 am »
Quote from: NW_Kohaku on February 25, 2012, 12:13:13 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on February 24, 2012, 11:12:52 pm
Quote from: Naryar on February 24, 2012, 04:56:40 am
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
      [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
      [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]

Pretty sure it's this. Add FIREIMMUNE and FIREIMMUNE_SUPER for good measure.

But that affects the entire species, not just one caste.

I think I'll have to make a copy of every body material, tissue, and BP just for one small change, but what must be done must be done. Is there any way to copy tissues (and nothing else) from another creature, that already is fireproof?

I'm fairly sure that just about everything related to body structure and tissues is caste-level.  There were only two or three tokens, like BIOME or MEGABEAST that were creature-level only, although that was back in 31.whatever.

You can have different castes with entirely different body structures, and back in 31.01, I built castes where one was a spider person, one was a snake person, etc.

FIREIMMUNE and the like can be caste-specific, but SELECT_MATERIAL selects for the whole species, no matter where defined.
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narhiril

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2012, 12:27:43 am »
Quote from: HugoLuman on February 25, 2012, 12:15:27 am
Quote from: NW_Kohaku on February 25, 2012, 12:13:13 am
Quote from: HugoLuman on February 24, 2012, 11:12:52 pm
Quote from: Naryar on February 24, 2012, 04:56:40 am
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
      [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
      [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]

Pretty sure it's this. Add FIREIMMUNE and FIREIMMUNE_SUPER for good measure.

But that affects the entire species, not just one caste.

I think I'll have to make a copy of every body material, tissue, and BP just for one small change, but what must be done must be done. Is there any way to copy tissues (and nothing else) from another creature, that already is fireproof?

I'm fairly sure that just about everything related to body structure and tissues is caste-level.  There were only two or three tokens, like BIOME or MEGABEAST that were creature-level only, although that was back in 31.whatever.

You can have different castes with entirely different body structures, and back in 31.01, I built castes where one was a spider person, one was a snake person, etc.

FIREIMMUNE and the like can be caste-specific, but SELECT_MATERIAL selects for the whole species, no matter where defined.

0.34 made materials creature-level, so defining or modifying a material at caste level doesn't work anymore.  I honestly have no idea why Toady changed this (I'm sure he had a reason), but it broke several of my modded creatures and I had to do a bit of re-working.

What I ended up having to do was move the entire body definition to caste-level (you can streamline that with SELECT_CASTE and SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE for all castes with the same body) and then re-work the entire thing for the fireproof castes using different local material IDs.  In order to do that, I basically had to clone and re-name all of the material templates and tissue templates, then call them with a new body detail plan at caste-level to set the tissues up. 

It was a royal pain in the ass, but I think I finally got it working.  If you'd like, I can go ahead and try to untangle the whole things from LFR and upload it as a modder's resource, which might be useful to more people and save you a lot of work.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 12:29:55 am by narhiril »
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WillowLuman

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2012, 12:59:04 am »
Can I get an example raw of how I would define the body for the generic castes?  Like, what exactly needs to go in [SELECT_CASTE] and what can stay at the top of the file?
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 01:22:49 am »
When I did my Stonehall Alliance mod, (which was .31.01, I will remind you, so I'm not sure what may have changed), I could simply use the biomes, general names, general tiles, and some of the tokens that really were in every single caste (like INTELLIGENT), and then define basically everything else about the creature in the caste-level. 

That meant the whole body declaration was caste-level, for example. 

If material declaration is now creature-level (but not anything else), that just means you need to declare your materials outside the castes, and then can simply declare how those materials are used inside them. 

There shouldn't be negative effects for declaring a material that you don't actually use in a body.

But then, I haven't actually tested doing this, and maybe there's some hidden trap in the raws, so I may not be the best person to ask about this.
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WillowLuman

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 01:58:44 am »
Here's the raws I'm using, doesn't seem to work. Fireproof caste still burns, but is immune to dragonfire.
Body detail plans:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tissue templates
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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WillowLuman

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 02:02:04 am »
And the creature.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Material template too big to post here, but basically copy of all organic material templates with HEATDAM, melting & boiling points changed to NONE, and SPECHEAT changed to 30000
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nukularpower

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2012, 02:15:33 am »
Quote from: narhiril on February 25, 2012, 12:27:43 am
It was a royal pain in the ass, but I think I finally got it working.  If you'd like, I can go ahead and try to untangle the whole things from LFR and upload it as a modder's resource, which might be useful to more people and save you a lot of work.

Please do this.. would be great for a little side thing I'm trying.
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WillowLuman

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Re: Fireproofing one caste
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2012, 04:34:28 pm »
Quote from: nukularpower on February 25, 2012, 02:15:33 am
Quote from: narhiril on February 25, 2012, 12:27:43 am
It was a royal pain in the ass, but I think I finally got it working.  If you'd like, I can go ahead and try to untangle the whole things from LFR and upload it as a modder's resource, which might be useful to more people and save you a lot of work.

Please do this.. would be great for a little side thing I'm trying.

Seconded, I'm stuck
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