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Wait for Next Version, Use current (.40.24,) or use older release (.34.11?)

Wait for the next release. I want usable mugs damn it!
- 55 (71.4%)
We can use the current one. I like the big trees and slightly smarter dorfs.
- 17 (22.1%)
I'll take .34.11 thanks. I want to know I'll get to kill things for sure.
- 5 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 77


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Author Topic: [34.11] Spearbreakers - It shudders and begins to move  (Read 2178019 times)

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10695 on: August 24, 2014, 09:57:19 pm »

Welp, it looks like a bunch of releases were done when I wasn't looking, and a few of the bugfixes look like they may have finally fixed the weirdness with the arena, so I'm off to finally make sure the Spawn aren't broken as hell. See ya'll soon!
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Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10696 on: August 24, 2014, 10:05:18 pm »

Good luck good sir.

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10697 on: August 24, 2014, 10:35:59 pm »

Well, the bug appears to have indeed been fixed, whatever it was; units now react appropriately when under attack. The Spawn absolutely reamed through Proficient-level soldiers but could be fended off by Accomplished soldiers with a bit of luck, although the dwarves suffered heavy casualties even when they won. Archers can likely be used to tip the scales in the dwarves' favour.

Also of note is the fact that the Spawn are now vulnerable to burning.
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A great human twisted into humanoid form. It has an emaciated appearance and it squirms and fidgets. Beware its bronyism!

Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

My tileset. Because someone asked. (Now with installation instructions!)
I so want your spawn babies

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10698 on: August 24, 2014, 10:39:11 pm »

Well, the bug appears to have indeed been fixed, whatever it was; units now react appropriately when under attack. The Spawn absolutely reamed through Proficient-level soldiers but could be fended off by Accomplished soldiers with a bit of luck, although the dwarves suffered heavy casualties even when they won. Archers can likely be used to tip the scales in the dwarves' favour.

Also of note is the fact that the Spawn are now vulnerable to burning.

So lots of hard training and ranged support are a must then. Good to know. also maybe this time around I can permit magma weaponization if spawn can be fried properly now.

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10699 on: August 24, 2014, 10:53:36 pm »

A complicating factor is the fact that soldiers apparently train much faster now (or so I hear), but I haven't actually been playing much so I don't have much idea of what the standard is of an 'average' soldier vs. an 'experienced' soldier. It'd be terrible if the Spawn turned out to be jokes just because I underestimated how well players can now train their soldiers.

And, yes, the Spawn are totally vulnerable to burning now. I dumped some magma on one and it went up like a friggin' fiend flambé. Died a few moments later (I'm guessing because its lower body burned away).
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A great human twisted into humanoid form. It has an emaciated appearance and it squirms and fidgets. Beware its bronyism!

Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

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I so want your spawn babies

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10700 on: August 24, 2014, 10:58:43 pm »

Take's roughly a year to two last i checked to get weapon masters, and squads seem to train much more efficiently now even in larger numbers.

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10701 on: August 25, 2014, 04:13:27 am »

Do you have much personal experience with the current version? If so, how skilled are your squads generally by the time they're sent up against the gobbos?
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A great human twisted into humanoid form. It has an emaciated appearance and it squirms and fidgets. Beware its bronyism!

Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

My tileset. Because someone asked. (Now with installation instructions!)
I so want your spawn babies

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10702 on: August 25, 2014, 10:28:14 am »

Do you have much personal experience with the current version? If so, how skilled are your squads generally by the time they're sent up against the gobbos?

Variable, depending on when bandits attack, how large my population is, and so forth. The average, if I start with two soldiers and add three more from the early migrant waves is generally one weapon master, maybe two, with the other 1-3 being between levels 2-6 in various skills, maybe 7 fighter if they've been doing a lot of sparring.

Time and luck are going to be our biggest allies against the organized spawn.

TalonisWolf

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10703 on: August 25, 2014, 02:25:43 pm »

That last bit about the book keeper was great.

  You're welcome. :)

  Fighting the Spawn with all the new game mechanics is going to be a daunting task, but given that our main tactic was too let our enemies wear each other down we should have enough time to build up a real force.

  As for building Disipline:

  Trap a Donkey in the Dining Room, let it starve and watch its dead corpse build up everyone's discipline over time. Cruel, but merciful compared to pre-Mitchewawa Hospital.

 
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Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10704 on: August 25, 2014, 02:48:07 pm »

Or once we have a viable support system in place put every able-bodied adult into the militia either as marksmen or melee reservists. Individual drills build up discipline at a decent rate for non-professional soldiers.

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10705 on: August 25, 2014, 03:43:53 pm »

Quote
Fighting the Spawn with all the new game mechanics is going to be a daunting task, but given that our main tactic was too let our enemies wear each other down we should have enough time to build up a real force.

Which reminds me, I need to update banshees for 40x (not that there's been any decisive word on whether they'll be used, I just like how they punish turtling).

Also, I'm not sure what Discipline is, but there's always the good old-fashioned Dining Hall Kitten Fall if you want your dwarves to witness death on a grand scale.
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A great human twisted into humanoid form. It has an emaciated appearance and it squirms and fidgets. Beware its bronyism!

Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

My tileset. Because someone asked. (Now with installation instructions!)
I so want your spawn babies

Lolfail0009

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10706 on: August 25, 2014, 06:17:50 pm »

Discipline, put simply, is a unit's capacity to carry out tasks despite fear-inducing objects, creatures or events.

Aseaheru

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10707 on: August 25, 2014, 06:39:37 pm »

So inother words, give every person who you start with max starter skill in it.
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Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10708 on: August 25, 2014, 07:43:48 pm »

Not necessarily.

Unit response seems to be influenced by the opposing creature (size and scent possibly?) Number of closeby friendlies, personality, emotional hardening, and training (represented by the discipline skill.)

Dwarves who like to pick fights, have a sense of duty, and are generally adventurous individuals may outright attack intruders without being part of the militia, and even somewhat cowardly individuals will throw caution to the wind if there's a large number of friendly units nearby; my guess being they may take on a mob mentality and try to swarm the intruder with sheer numbers like ants or something, as I have had children lash out at invading mandrills that climbed over a wall in one fort and even managed to kill two of them (three in all, with four others taking the long way. One kid died, the rest of the mandrills ended up on the business end of several bronze swords and copper maces.)

Personality and training are the biggest ones, as it seems to require roughly 5 discipline to be able to keep fighting with numerous deaths in a battle if they have a tendency towards cowardice. Any lower than that and more than one or two kills will cause them to be overwhelmed by horror (and unable to fight.)

On that note, individuals who have positive personality traits for the military (sense of duty, adventurous, likes to brawl/pick fights with others, and values war over peace) will train as diligently and fight as fiercely (if not as well) as a damned weapon master. On the inverse, it may take considerably more training to get peace-loving dwarves to fight nearly as well, and it's likely that it could be said if they train and fight at all it's because they feel they need to to protect thier home and loved ones, where the former wants to fight just to kick the shit out of any dumb goblin, elf, or what have you that crosses their path.

All recruits however will train themselves to the point of exhaustion at times; I've seen sparring matches between non-weapon masters go on and on until one or both physically couldn't stand up anymore they were going at it so fiercely.

That being said, with the way things are traps will definitely be permitted on a large scale. Having soldiers who may break and run at the first sign of trouble makes that a necessity.

Lolfail0009

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10709 on: August 25, 2014, 09:57:31 pm »

All of these new personality/soul stats...

I can't wait to see the inter-dwarf relations, and how it'll be reflected in the writing~
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