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Wait for Next Version, Use current (.40.24,) or use older release (.34.11?)

Wait for the next release. I want usable mugs damn it!
- 55 (71.4%)
We can use the current one. I like the big trees and slightly smarter dorfs.
- 17 (22.1%)
I'll take .34.11 thanks. I want to know I'll get to kill things for sure.
- 5 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 77


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Author Topic: [34.11] Spearbreakers - It shudders and begins to move  (Read 2178277 times)

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10740 on: September 16, 2014, 12:21:15 am »

Sounds like it. So some kind of drop-dead space or reduced reproduction rate will probably do the job of balancing things out.

CaptainMcClellan

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10741 on: September 17, 2014, 07:42:57 am »

Ageless, but the main problem causing them to overpopulate everything would be
Code: [Select]
[LITTERSIZE:3:6]
Which I guess is now being respected in worldgen when it wasn't before?
If I'm reading correctly, that's the spawn? It's a wonder the world wasn't overrun with them before... Please tell me that when SBII comes around, there won't be a spawn number corresponding to this just running around Everoc. Also, I saw your message Splint, and since I'm already here I might as well tell you that I don't have any ideas really. Sorry. Maybe if I'd followed the story of that fort a bit closer I could help, but...

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10742 on: September 17, 2014, 06:12:49 pm »

Ageless, but the main problem causing them to overpopulate everything would be
Code: [Select]
[LITTERSIZE:3:6]
Which I guess is now being respected in worldgen when it wasn't before?
If I'm reading correctly, that's the spawn? It's a wonder the world wasn't overrun with them before... Please tell me that when SBII comes around, there won't be a spawn number corresponding to this just running around Everoc.

Litter size wasn't really respected in 34x worldgen, but I guess Toady implemented it? Or maybe I just never noticed it before, or something else changed.

I don't think it really affects anything beyond hampering expansion of other civs. I'm pretty sure the Spawn will continue attacking at the same rate.
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A great human twisted into humanoid form. It has an emaciated appearance and it squirms and fidgets. Beware its bronyism!

Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

My tileset. Because someone asked. (Now with installation instructions!)
I so want your spawn babies

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10743 on: September 17, 2014, 06:24:30 pm »

Also, I saw your message Splint, and since I'm already here I might as well tell you that I don't have any ideas really. Sorry. Maybe if I'd followed the story of that fort a bit closer I could help, but...

Well it's not exactly the hyper-convoluted organizational disaster this thread wound up, and several updates are fairly short; so it'd be fairly easy to pick up and probably read in a half or so, maybe 45 minutes if you're a slow reader.

Ageless, but the main problem causing them to overpopulate everything would be
Code: [Select]
[LITTERSIZE:3:6]
Which I guess is now being respected in worldgen when it wasn't before?
If I'm reading correctly, that's the spawn? It's a wonder the world wasn't overrun with them before... Please tell me that when SBII comes around, there won't be a spawn number corresponding to this just running around Everoc.

Litter size wasn't really respected in 34x worldgen, but I guess Toady implemented it? Or maybe I just never noticed it before, or something else changed.

I don't think it really affects anything beyond hampering expansion of other civs. I'm pretty sure the Spawn will continue attacking at the same rate.

It's entirely possible they were just bugged the hell out in .34.xx and something. Although if they use similar dwarven age rates (possibly slightly lowered,) then they shouldn't be a massive threat in and of themselves so much as that they could attack in waves during worldgen so to speak. Still waiting on those raws too.

And McClellan, there were in fact plans for roaming hordes of spawn as "wild animals" as well as megaspawn for a powerful megabeast enemy, meaning there quite literally would have been hordes just roaming about the continent. The latter may still be doable but the former would probably need them restricted to small groups of maybe 3 or 4 units and significantly weaker than regular spawn warriors. Otherwise they'll trounce us within the first year or two in an unfun manner (that's normal fun, not !!FUN!!) simply by wandering in and some idiot woodcutter or yak herder picking a fight with them or vice versa (which considering how shitty things can get quickly in the new version and our luck would probably turn out to be some super popular douche and result in the place caving in on itself even if we won the ensuing fight.)

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10744 on: September 17, 2014, 06:54:21 pm »

Quote
And McClellan, there were in fact plans for roaming hordes of spawn as "wild animals" as well as megaspawn for a powerful megabeast enemy, meaning there quite literally would have been hordes just roaming about the continent. The latter may still be doable but the former would probably need them restricted to small groups of maybe 3 or 4 units and significantly weaker than regular spawn warriors. Otherwise they'll trounce us within the first year or two in an unfun manner (that's normal fun, not !!FUN!!) simply by wandering in and some idiot woodcutter or yak herder picking a fight with them or vice versa (which considering how shitty things can get quickly in the new version and our luck would probably turn out to be some super popular douche and result in the place caving in on itself even if we won the ensuing fight.)

I could throw in Spawn Degenerates or something as an optional add-on. I'm picturing a small, scrawny four-limbed beastie with no head and a gaping toothy mouth. Kind of like a starfish.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 06:55:59 pm by Mr Frog »
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Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

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I so want your spawn babies

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10745 on: September 17, 2014, 07:39:22 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And with the simple phrase of them, you get this.

A lumpy, four-armed, ugly looking monstrosity even by spawn standards with feet warped into horrid things for pinning knocked down prey to the floor, limbs meant for slashing and raking prey, and a mouth full of varyingly unfitting sized teeth, making them poor at biting things. Their eyes have mismatched irises and pupils, skin is splitting in places, and thier limbs don't really fit too well together, being of uneven size.

In all, a wretched thing, even for spawn, believed to be the result of whatever modifications or foul magic done on them resulting in a steady backslide into creatures that may one day be competing with chaos spawn in "ugliest mother fucker in existence" contests.

The drawing wound up stockier than intended but it's still fitting enough.

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10746 on: September 17, 2014, 08:19:43 pm »

Hm... I was kind of picturing it sort of shambling around on all-fours crabwalk-style. I do like the idea of it having two misshapen eyes jammed haphazardly into its shoulders. And also its limbs not really fitting together well.

E: I note that its mouth looks especially... vaginal. Was that intentional?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 08:21:21 pm by Mr Frog »
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A great human twisted into humanoid form. It has an emaciated appearance and it squirms and fidgets. Beware its bronyism!

Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

My tileset. Because someone asked. (Now with installation instructions!)
I so want your spawn babies

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10747 on: September 17, 2014, 08:46:00 pm »

It was a little bit, not gonna lie, but I hadn't meant for it to be quite so, like it is. I never really imagine the spawn in any form crawling on all fours unless situation demands such; more of an awkward only just coordinated gait when running (resulting in a rabid zombie look when they attack except when they trance,) and a bit of a hobble when walking due to messed up hips/legs, either from combat with other spawn/enemies or from accidents.

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10748 on: September 17, 2014, 09:23:02 pm »

Quote
I never really imagine the spawn in any form crawling on all fours unless situation demands such

These are degenerate spawn, though. They probably wouldn't be so dignified.

If anyone wants to help with balancing, etc. the new Spawn as they currently exist can be downloaded here. They won't be added to my modding page itself until I've twiddled around with them a bit more.
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Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

My tileset. Because someone asked. (Now with installation instructions!)
I so want your spawn babies

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10749 on: September 17, 2014, 09:28:26 pm »

Awesome, been waiting on them raws. And I suppose so, though it may be more due to thier messed up legs than anything cause those clearly aren't totally functioning right.

Time to arena test these bitches against Stal's Armory.

Talvieno

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10750 on: September 17, 2014, 09:57:00 pm »

*looks in* Heyaa, looks like the spawn raws are coming along nicely. :)
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Quartz_Mace

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10751 on: September 17, 2014, 09:58:54 pm »

For how long have these Spawn been in the works?
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Talvieno

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10752 on: September 17, 2014, 10:02:44 pm »

For how long have these Spawn been in the works?

Depends on what you mean. Four, five years... or just a couple months.
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Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10753 on: September 17, 2014, 11:03:44 pm »

Preliminary testing in the arena is indicting thus: Dwarves with okay training using two-handed weapons and a full suit of armor and uniform under that made from steel and pig tail fabric can take on spawn with okay skills. However, heavily armored dwarves are at a disadvantage as the spawn move considerably faster.

The Dwarves however will either kill the majority or leave nearly all enemy combatants moderately to severely handicapped for additional conflict (missing limbs, unable to walk or bite, flat out down to pushing, and similar ailments.) Stal's Armory armor is a vast improvement and a single layer or armor and a uniform under that are more than sufficient to face down the spawn but seem to have fatal flaws: The neck and upper arms are very easy to injure since there's no plate armor for these body parts.

The Neck is a favorite once the dwarf is down. They are quickly choked to death or bitten and shaken until they bleed out.

Mr Frog

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #10754 on: September 17, 2014, 11:16:38 pm »

Awesome, been waiting on them raws.

Sorry about that :3  I really have no excuse; I've been doing pretty much everything imaginable except working on the Spawn.

*looks in* Heyaa, looks like the spawn raws are coming along nicely. :)

*waves*

Quote
Preliminary testing in the arena is indicting thus: Dwarves with okay training using two-handed weapons and a full suit of armor and uniform under that made from steel and pig tail fabric can take on spawn with okay skills. However, heavily armored dwarves are at a disadvantage as the spawn move considerably faster.

The Dwarves however will either kill the majority or leave nearly all enemy combatants moderately to severely handicapped for additional conflict (missing limbs, unable to walk or bite, flat out down to pushing, and similar ailments.) Stal's Armory armor is a vast improvement and a single layer or armor and a uniform under that are more than sufficient to face down the spawn but seem to have fatal flaws: The neck and upper arms are very easy to injure since there's no plate armor for these body parts.

The Neck is a favorite once the dwarf is down. They are quickly choked to death or bitten and shaken until they bleed out.

So, what's your call here? Should I make them stronger? Weaker?
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A great human twisted into humanoid form. It has an emaciated appearance and it squirms and fidgets. Beware its bronyism!

Spawn of Holistic, and other mods

My tileset. Because someone asked. (Now with installation instructions!)
I so want your spawn babies
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