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[Owlbread]

Books shouldn't train dwarves, maybe up to novice or adept but not more.
I would like to see fictional tales and historical pieces however, as trading commodities, and also to spice up cultures.
For instance, one culture would have a tag, making them more likely to write poetry, while another culture would be famous for their volumous encyclopedias and historical novels.

I agree with you about training.

But I like the idea of building vast libraries to attract visiting scholars, and the idea of dwarven "monks" inscribing ornate books and/or scrolls.

"And Armok made four great folkes A wise and strong folke to rule the daye, a worthie and hearty folke to strike the earth, a green and evill folke to break all oaths, a dark folke of foul creaturs to rule the nyghte and he made long-ears also.
And Armok put them in this plaine of existency to do battle vpon this erth
and to spill bloode for the bloode god. And Armok sawe yt was good."

[IshmaelNemo]

Anything that can aid in staving off a tantrum spiral is something to look forward to in my books. Only one thing I think could be addressed:

With the slight implementation of books in the current build, an ability to copy them will eventually be necessary.  In the event that a knowledgeable dwarf gets a mood they may compile that knowledge into a tome.  This tome will then be usable to train subsequent dwarves in the skills its associated with--similar to how reading a book/slab with the information of life and death can make you a necromancer in adventure mode. 
However, just one tome won't be enough to teach all your dwarves the desired skills; duplicates will be necessary.  This is when scribes come into play.  Scribes would heavily utilize reading, writing, and wordsmith skills.  Dwarves assigned to scribe work can begin with simply duplicating books but can progress over time.  Eventually a scribe can begin to compile different works into a single volume, add person knowledge and experience, and eventually write their own completely seperate books on the topic(s) (due to the dwarf in question getting increased skill from just simply working with the material). 

This, in conjunction with what Kohaku said about already having skills like Poet or Writer, makes me think of the inevitability of dwarves writing epic tales or poems after great events happen. Say, if a Legendary Macedwarf manages to take down a dragon singlehandedly, or the fortress manages to slay a Forgotten Beast. However, I feel like a lot of the actualy bookwriting would overlap with music or songwriting, if that becomes more defined.

[Owlbread]

Anything that can aid in staving off a tantrum spiral is something to look forward to in my books. Only one thing I think could be addressed:

With the slight implementation of books in the current build, an ability to copy them will eventually be necessary.  In the event that a knowledgeable dwarf gets a mood they may compile that knowledge into a tome.  This tome will then be usable to train subsequent dwarves in the skills its associated with--similar to how reading a book/slab with the information of life and death can make you a necromancer in adventure mode. 
However, just one tome won't be enough to teach all your dwarves the desired skills; duplicates will be necessary.  This is when scribes come into play.  Scribes would heavily utilize reading, writing, and wordsmith skills.  Dwarves assigned to scribe work can begin with simply duplicating books but can progress over time.  Eventually a scribe can begin to compile different works into a single volume, add person knowledge and experience, and eventually write their own completely seperate books on the topic(s) (due to the dwarf in question getting increased skill from just simply working with the material). 

This, in conjunction with what Kohaku said about already having skills like Poet or Writer, makes me think of the inevitability of dwarves writing epic tales or poems after great events happen. Say, if a Legendary Macedwarf manages to take down a dragon singlehandedly, or the fortress manages to slay a Forgotten Beast. However, I feel like a lot of the actualy bookwriting would overlap with music or songwriting, if that becomes more defined.

I once suggested that the Legends mode should be dependent on the word of the books, so when someone sees an event and writes it down, they may embellish the story greatly (depending on the personality and allegiances of the writer) so instead of 500 dwarves facing 1000 goblins it may become 300 dwarves facing 10,000 goblins.

It could even be linked to word of mouth - if a dwarf sees a battle involving 500 dwarves against 1000 goblins, he may walk away and tell his friend about it, then get killed by a great big elephant. The friend then embellishes the story enormously to make it sound more interesting, so it becomes 300 dwarves against 10,000. That is the version of the story everyone hears, so that is the version that eventually becomes the legend as it passes into popular consciousness. So in other words, 100 years into the future from then, Dwarves will be sitting around a campfire having a discussion. One will turn to the other and say "you know, in these hills, I heard 300 Dwarves faced off against 10,000 goblins and lived to tell the tale."

[Nyan Thousand]

I'd like to expand on the topic of manuals. Manuals could be very useful. Say you have a Legendary Cheese Maker who also happens to be a Novice Writer. He could write a book about Cheese Making, and anybody who reads it would probably learn something. The better the writing skill, the better the resulting text. Same goes for the skill being written about, of course. I think, to make it not too over powered, a Legendary Cheese Maker (X)/Legendary Writer (Y) would make a manual that would give a Legendary Reader (Z) enough points to be a Competent Cheese Maker. That's three levels above Dabbling. Something like N= floor[(level of X)(level of Y)(level of Z)/3] could govern the amount of levels (from Dabbling) a dwarf could gain. So, from my example, if everybody is Legendary in everything (that is, X,Y and Z are all 15), N would be 3. Or something like that. Obviously we'd have to take traits into account as well. I think it'd be best if we just leave that part to Toady. I mean, he does have a PhD in Math and all. Another thing to consider: the Student skill.

Another thing manuals can be useful for: learning how to make foreign things. Let's say you want to make a turban. A dwarf would consult the relevant manual, and depending on his skill and the quality of the book, you'd get a turban. Such manuals could be obtained through caravans. Eventually, if the same dwarf reads from the same manual enough, he would eventually master the art of making turbans and it would be natural to him (and him alone). That means he doesn't need to consult the manual every time he needs to make a turban, and in fact could even make his own book about it, if need be.

Maybe we could expand this idea to include non-foreign items. Say you want to make a breastplate. If your Legendary Blacksmith authored a book on breastplate making (though why one would make a book on just one topic is a question for another day), then less experienced blacksmiths can consult that tome to make better breastplates. Eventually they'd be really good at it, and at Blacksmithing in general.

Just some things to consider. I really like the idea of learning from books; being the owner of a shit load of textbooks, I'd like to see my dwarfs know that feel.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Anything that can aid in staving off a tantrum spiral is something to look forward to in my books. Only one thing I think could be addressed:

With the slight implementation of books in the current build, an ability to copy them will eventually be necessary.  In the event that a knowledgeable dwarf gets a mood they may compile that knowledge into a tome.  This tome will then be usable to train subsequent dwarves in the skills its associated with--similar to how reading a book/slab with the information of life and death can make you a necromancer in adventure mode. 
However, just one tome won't be enough to teach all your dwarves the desired skills; duplicates will be necessary.  This is when scribes come into play.  Scribes would heavily utilize reading, writing, and wordsmith skills.  Dwarves assigned to scribe work can begin with simply duplicating books but can progress over time.  Eventually a scribe can begin to compile different works into a single volume, add person knowledge and experience, and eventually write their own completely seperate books on the topic(s) (due to the dwarf in question getting increased skill from just simply working with the material). 

This, in conjunction with what Kohaku said about already having skills like Poet or Writer, makes me think of the inevitability of dwarves writing epic tales or poems after great events happen. Say, if a Legendary Macedwarf manages to take down a dragon singlehandedly, or the fortress manages to slay a Forgotten Beast. However, I feel like a lot of the actualy bookwriting would overlap with music or songwriting, if that becomes more defined.

I once suggested that the Legends mode should be dependent on the word of the books, so when someone sees an event and writes it down, they may embellish the story greatly (depending on the personality and allegiances of the writer) so instead of 500 dwarves facing 1000 goblins it may become 300 dwarves facing 10,000 goblins.

It could even be linked to word of mouth - if a dwarf sees a battle involving 500 dwarves against 1000 goblins, he may walk away and tell his friend about it, then get killed by a great big elephant. The friend then embellishes the story enormously to make it sound more interesting, so it becomes 300 dwarves against 10,000. That is the version of the story everyone hears, so that is the version that eventually becomes the legend as it passes into popular consciousness. So in other words, 100 years into the future from then, Dwarves will be sitting around a campfire having a discussion. One will turn to the other and say "you know, in these hills, I heard 300 Dwarves faced off against 10,000 goblins and lived to tell the tale."

I like this idea. Maybe the init option for "Reveal All History" would have a "No" option (like it is currently), a "Yes" option (ditto), and a "Partial" option (we see what the dwarves/goblins/whomever recall and pass down through their tales, ideally the default option). There should be some way to discover the truth, though. Maybe going to the battlefield and then counting the bodies or estimating the size of the mass graves or chatting with some friendly/unfriendly ghosts or something. ("HOW many goblins did they say we were facing?")

[tootboot]

I'd also like to see an expanded role for books in the game.  Seems like a waste only having Necromancers and Demons write them.

[thiosk]

Here is the framework I suggest:

Some dwarves will like to read.  They will tend to forgo other jobs to do so, and will get an unhappy thought without sufficient reading material, or if not enough variety exists.  These dwarves will love a tastefully arranged, well stocked library.  These dwarves won't make great farmers or armor smiths, or perhaps other jobs that require loads of time.  They might, however, make good magicky jobs, when those are implemented.

Some won't like to read.  Just like some aren't creative or don't do music.

Most books will need to be imported, if you want a good library.  Good quality books will be expensive.

Book loving dwarves may occasionally create books, linked to their own skills.  Thus that legendary armor smith might make a book on smithing.  They can be bound in cat leather with menacing spikes of elf bone.

On training:
Good libraries might staff teachers.  This would do three things:

Train the teacher skill on a nonmilitary dwarf.

Give children something to do that doesn't involve pits, spikes, and quantum booze piles.  Children get student social training. 

Students could pick up skills up to proficient.  Very good books could get it a bit higher.  That's way better than an average crop of migrants.  But let's face it, it's the student skill you really want, good students train military skills faster when they come of age.  This will make children a much more valuable commodity.

Mostly, when I look at the units list, I want to see "attending a class on masonry".  This would make me happy, just like I get happy when I see squads doing armor demonstrations.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Most of that sounds good, but I see bibliophile burnings if dwarves skip work to read. It should but a leisure activity.

[Owlbread]

Most of that sounds good, but I see bibliophile burnings if dwarves skip work to read. It should but a leisure activity.

Remember though, why would your labourers be able to read?

[thiosk]

Most of that sounds good, but I see bibliophile burnings if dwarves skip work to read. It should but a leisure activity.

This doesn't sound like a real problem to me

Regardless, my expectation would be that a true bibliophile would be in effect a rare, desirable thing, since so few jobs will train bibliophilia.  The gymnastics would be to get the guy to train something useful, like smithing, rather than him popping out his native skill books- cheese makers guide to cheese.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Most of that sounds good, but I see bibliophile burnings if dwarves skip work to read. It should but a leisure activity.

Remember though, why would your labourers be able to read?

...Let me think about that. How were literacy rates in the 1300s or 1400s?

[FearfulJesuit]

What about printing? It did exist in 1400, even if it wasn't moveable type.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hm, that's right. Of course, we're not going to expect everything from 1400 and earlier in--at least I won't. Still, with the number of signs with writing on them in human towns and such, a high literacy rate is inferrable.

[Bytyan]

Dwarven culture seems more information-centric then medieval Europe, considering that every dwarf has a functional knowledge in every non-physical skill. It actually really bothers me that the only historians and authors in DF are necromancers. It seems a shame no one else cares enough. I think that a library should be a measure of cultural success like displayed and imported wealth, should color migrant's attributes and and promote growth in cultural knowledge (an expanded version of what we have for taming, including all skills). Also, I think skill growth should be slowed 50%, and by reading about a skill it can be marked studied (-S-,*S*) for bonuses up to previous growth rates.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Bear in mind that DF is still in alpha, so others are probably going to start writing books sooner or later.