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Author Topic: Vampire-safe bedrooms  (Read 2338 times)

gzoker

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2012, 02:36:38 pm »

Basically this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But you could design the second path like this: Hatch-Plate-Hatch. The Plate activates the hatches, trapping anyone on them. Then you can flush them down.

Or you can build the second path with a long retracting bridge with a one level drop below, and hook it up to the pressure plate.
You can trap the vampires this way, and i think it would work with multiple vampires too.

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ed boy

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2012, 04:31:56 pm »

What about bedrooms with no roof? Or floor grates, and everyone else walks around on top?
Well, that won't affect the pathfinding, so it doesn't really impact on the effectiveness of the design. Unless you mean that that would allow detection of when the vampire feeds, in which case it's not something that the design addresses - we're looking for prevent vampire feeding, not detecting it.

Needs an inverter too-- floodgates and doors allow passage on an open signal, disallow on a close.  In fact, really, you want to use all doors, no floodgates, to eliminate floodgate latency.
My bad, I got confused for which direction that the doors work when in a mechanism. In that case, we need to replace the doors with something that is open when deactivated and closed when activated. The only possibilities that I can think of off the top of my head are to either use a retracting bridge (which has latency issues) or to use a NOT gate and a door (which requires more of an investment). Though latency should only be an issue when the inner room is small and the path is therefore short.

If dwarves bump into each other in the hallway, they might take corner squares, so that can screw it up when children are involved, but the risk is low.
That's why all the hallways involved are one tile wide, and away from traffic from anyone that doesn't want to get into the room anyway. Even if the dwarf takes a corner square on the corner, when they travel down the passage they'll trigger the pressure plate anyway.

The real risk is that of your bed being used for something other than sleeping.  A dwarf might start the suffering the effects of a syndrome only after making it to bed-- such a dwarf would be a goner.  Any dwarf dying in bed (perhaps just old age) would tie up burial dwarves in infinite loops until you dismantled the room.
That's a problem with any automated airlock system. In that case, all would happen is that you would get one less idler for as long as it took for you to notice what's going on. I suppose with more research into sleep durations and timers, it should be possible to have it automatically close when the dwarf goes in and open a short while after the dwarf wakes up.

But you could design the second path like this: Hatch-Plate-Hatch. The Plate activates the hatches, trapping anyone on them. Then you can flush them down.

Or you can build the second path with a long retracting bridge with a one level drop below, and hook it up to the pressure plate.
You can trap the vampires this way, and i think it would work with multiple vampires too.
That would work in the sense that it would trap any potential vampires, but it would also trap any non-vampire dwarves that try to get into that room for any reason (e.g. haulers, children, etc) and they would starve to death unless you found them.

I'll work on some alternate designs and have them up in a bit.

Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2012, 04:36:36 pm »

Needs an inverter too-- floodgates and doors allow passage on an open signal, disallow on a close.  In fact, really, you want to use all doors, no floodgates, to eliminate floodgate latency.
My bad, I got confused for which direction that the doors work when in a mechanism. In that case, we need to replace the doors with something that is open when deactivated and closed when activated. The only possibilities that I can think of off the top of my head are to either use a retracting bridge (which has latency issues) or to use a NOT gate and a door (which requires more of an investment). Though latency should only be an issue when the inner room is small and the path is therefore short.

Easiest inversion of a door is a hatch over open space.  If latency's acceptable, easiest inversion of a floodgate is a raising bridge.

gzoker

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2012, 05:10:11 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There is a one level drop under the Bridge.
There is a ramp under the Hatch.
There is a tunnel to the Hatch from the south end of the Bridge.
Pressure Plate number one is linked to a binary memory, closing the door.
Pressure Plate number two is linked to the Bridge.
Pressure Plate number three resets the memory, opening the door.

Urist walks in, door closes. Praying Vampire falls repeatedly under the bridge, until Urist wakes up.
I can only see highly improbable problems with this. Like a vampire hanging around under the bridge, attacking the unconscious dwarfs/animals.
Or a vampire so fast, it reaches the end of the bridge before it retracts.
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Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2012, 07:22:27 pm »

Well, you will need a longer bridge.  Long-term vamps can only make it 6 tiles before the bridge will open, but newer vamps will make it further.  These kind of plate/bridge combos need a bit of jiggling sometimes, as they can get stuck closed when an open signal follows a close signal too closely.  Other than that, looks pretty square.

Darekun

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2012, 09:35:50 pm »

I suppose with more research into sleep durations and timers, it should be possible to have it automatically close when the dwarf goes in and open a short while after the dwarf wakes up.
Last I checked, sleep durations are based on the dwarf's speed — [SPEED:0] dwarves sleep as quickly as they do anything else. (The same applies to how often they need to sleep, eat, and drink; agile dwarves have faster metabolisms, or something.)

However, I'm not sure that's a bad thing; with testing you could make it so only clumsy dwarves were vulnerable to being drained by vampires.
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Darekun likes iron, cobalt, alicorn, cut gems, elves for their comparative advantage, and goblins for being an iron-bearing ore. When possible, she prefers to consume tea, cow meat, and Bacon Salt. She absolutely detests pasture creatures.

ed boy

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2012, 03:48:53 am »

Note that latency only matters when closing off a path. If one manages to have the path close off immediately (that is, before the vampire can move off the triggering pressure plate) then the design will always work, no matter how long it takes for a path to re-open.

Moddan

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2012, 04:54:04 am »

Brilliant! Also keeps the wife out as a bonus.
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ed boy

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Re: Vampire-safe bedrooms
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2012, 06:31:08 am »

It seems like the only method that creates a zero-latency way to close off a passage is to use a floor hatch over an empty space. The problem arises from the fact that the only way to send an off signal when a pressure plate is activated is by using an on signal to remove the load from another pressure plate, which has a latency of slightly over 100 ticks.

The design requires a memory cell to be build elsewhere in the fort.

Code: [Select]
P=pressure plate
H=hatch over no floor
D=door

╗P0P╔
║HDH║
║P║P║
║P║P║
Hook up the door to a latch, activated by the middle pair of pressure plates and deactivated by the lower pair of pressure plates. Hook up each hatch cover to the pressure plate above it.

As the dorf enters the system, one of the hatch covers will disappear. However, since the door is open, the dorf will just use the door instead to path down. As the dorf does so, the dorf will travel over both the two pressure plates at the bottom. Because of the slight delay between the two, the latch will end up deactivated and the door will close.

When a vampire then tried to path to the dorf, the path will take it onto the square above a pressure plate, which will immediately cause the hatch cover to disappear. However, the door in the middle is now closed, so the vampire has to go out and path around to the other side, where the path will be cut off again. The original path will re-activate after 100 ticks, so the vampire will move back and forth until the dorf wakes up and the vampire loses interest.
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