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Author Topic: Requesting Evil Embark advice  (Read 6071 times)

(name here)

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Requesting Evil Embark advice
« on: March 04, 2012, 03:40:53 pm »

So, with the changes to Evil areas I really want to take on the challenge of establishing a fort in one. But my previous two attempts were miserable failures that didn't make it to Autumn.

Now, with that experience behind me I've decided on the following plans:

-Embark with axedwarves or potentially obsidian and wood for swordsdwarves.
-Burrow into the ground right away, get everything inside by mid-spring and lock up.
-Create a Trade Depot indoors, construct door between it and fort, mine out the cliffside somewhere, keep door locked until caravan is actually in the depot. Might also use this for a migrant entrance.

However, I really have no idea what to do in order to avoid my fort completely falling apart shortly after the first time a zombie slips inside. Also, I have dreams of eventually making some use of the surface, but the zombie issue is even more pronounced up there.

Advice? Also, what should I do for dealing with my own corpses, since they don't seem to be on the dumping list per my first embark attempt (Volcano)?
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Nagassh

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2012, 03:51:04 pm »

I've not found the point in embarking with any military - if you can't get everyone indoors before you need a military, chances are one dwarf won't make the difference. just dig in / down immediately and seal off the exit.

Airlock the trade depo, and do it soon - it needs to double as a migrant entrance, if the zombie problem gets bad, it's almost impossible to fix. I've had 1 migrant make it in the past 40ish years, now the zombies are at almost 300.

Don't count on the caves being any better, undead-forgotten beasts are horrifying.
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NecroRebel

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2012, 03:54:21 pm »

Getting yourself sealed off from the outside ASAP is very important. The best way to do this is probably to bring wood and just have everybody immediately be temporary carpenters and have them erect a wall around your wagon. That will actually be quicker than digging underground and moving things down there unless you embarked with a lot of picks. It won't help too much against bird corpses, though; raven corpses in particular are murder unless you're truly 100% completely sealed off.

You can survive zombies getting inside by making sure you have an atom smasher or a magma chute set up quickly, then making sure you have people available to dump the bodies as soon as they stop moving. Setting (o)rders regarding (r)efuse so that the dwarves automatically dump corpses and other body parts is a very good idea; you don't want to have to wait for you to mark them for dumping.

Unfortunately, using the surface is extremely difficult in Evil biomes. It's probably best to just make a completely sealed wagon-passable path to the map edge for caravans to come through, a little hut that houses the well-trapped stairs into your fort for migrants and liaisons to use, and just don't use the surface otherwise at all. Using the surface would probably require a significant number of soldiers on duty to guard workers.

You're going to have to mark your dwarf corpses for dumping manually. I suppose you could also use cunning designs to make tombs that automatically seal when something leaves them so you can put bodies in them without the bodies being able to get out again, but it's probably best not to.
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Sting_Auer

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2012, 03:58:56 pm »

Warhammers.

Get underground and sealed off ASAP. Forbid the use of your external doors if you don't have drawbridges.

set your refuse and forbidding rules to not allow the collection of anything from outside, and to automatically dump refuse and corpses.

Make a dump pit that first drops the refuse onto a floor hatch, which then opens into a separate dump pit. That way the people trying to dump raiseable material won't be scared away by the undead in the pit.

Slabs, not coffins.

SEAL OFF THE BORDERS! SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING! NOBODY GETS IN OR OUT!

Reproduction. Your dwarves will need to have children instead of bring in migrants.
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acetech09

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 04:05:12 pm »

Warhammers.

Only for raised zombies. Don't send your warhammer dwarves against any thralls or husks if you have one. Just run. I learned the hard way when my 2 hammer dwarves got horribly mutilated by a thrall buzzard. They only survived because, after passing out, a miner had time to bisect the bird while it was pecking at bronze helms.
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(name here)

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 04:12:44 pm »

Alright, I managed to successfully get myself burrowed into the ground in an evil biome, and am starting on creating accommedations.
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UncleCern

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 04:25:31 pm »

Warhammers.

Only for raised zombies. Don't send your warhammer dwarves against any thralls or husks if you have one. Just run. I learned the hard way when my 2 hammer dwarves got horribly mutilated by a thrall buzzard. They only survived because, after passing out, a miner had time to bisect the bird while it was pecking at bronze helms.
Do you mean thralls are killable? Any further advice would be appreciated.

Also - I recommend using underground tunnels with airlock entrances in various points of the map. Caravan shows up - you open one tunnel, they get in and you close the tunnel. You then let them out through a different one where there are not many zombies. Does your map have 100% evil biome coverage or do you have some safe spots with non-resurrecting terrain?
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(name here)

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 04:28:22 pm »

This current one is apparently completely evil biome. However, there is a river that living creatures move through. I am pretty sure it is a reanimation-effect area, but most of the undead are trying to punch a giant sponge to death right now.

My biggest worry is water. There is a skeletal alligator sitting right outside where I planned to extract some water from the river into a cistern, and my only other plan is to cut into the caverns and use a long-distance well. I also have no real source of fuel, which will be a serious issue over the long term.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 04:35:42 pm by (name here) »
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Di

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2012, 04:41:16 pm »

Get five picks and do this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
On the upper picture it is channel designation. Until zombies learn to jump you're safe. Two military dwarves are likely to put down anything winged.
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Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2012, 06:02:34 pm »

Assuming you're already inside, safe and sound:

a) Eventually, you'll want bridges to block access to your depot, and not just doors.  Doors can fall to kobolds, building destroyers, ghosts....

b) Multiple pathways, so that a single zombie in the staircase doesn't stop everything.

c) Hatch covers and doors where convenient, again, to stop LOS problems.

d) Nothing wrong with interior traps.  Although plenty of people say to avoid slicers, I think slicers are fine, as there are only a certain number of animate bits that a slicer can make, and you're going to end up with those bits anyways.  Cage traps are good too.  Keep in mind that so long as you stay walled off, your only real problems (dwarf zombies) are going to be unaffected by your traps (isresident flag checked).

e) Slabs, not coffins.

f) Some form of refuse/graveyard disposal.  I would recommend atom-smashing, although magma or just a deep, inaccessible pit will work nicely.  The problem, of course, is that this requires oversight.  It can be automated if you feel like messing with mechanics, though (I can give you a specific example of how if you want).

g) Underground tree farm.  Start it early, and you'll have the fuel you need.

h) You can safely transfer water by pumping it through a grate.  Critters can't destroy grates above them.  (Again, I can give you a specific example of how to deal with your water problem, if you want.)
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(name here)

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 06:10:15 pm »

Things are actually going pretty well, on the balance of things. I'm approaching the end of the year, have walled off a small portion of the caverns, and have a secure cistern. I got two migrant waves and the caravan, although the caravan didn't leave. My militia has dealt with a couple of zombie parts that made it into the airlock while the caravan was attempting to depart, so it's looking somewhat good currently.

Unfortunately, there's a bunch of dwarven zombies lingering just outside of the airlock floodgates, so I'm going to need a new one.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 06:12:49 pm by (name here) »
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peskyninja

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 06:15:17 pm »

Try digging some tunnels to near the edge of the map that are blocked all year till migrants arrive. This can give you a couple more slaves dwarfs.
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ZzarkLinux

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 06:24:44 pm »

Make a dump pit that first drops the refuse onto a floor hatch, which then opens into a separate dump pit. That way the people trying to dump raiseable material won't be scared away by the undead in the pit.

I can't get this to work so far, if anyone has advice I'm all ears.

So far I've tried
1) Carve hole, Dump Zone next to hole, build Floor hatch. No mechanisms
Result: Dwarves dump items onto the floor hatch

2) Carve hole, Dump Zone next to hole, build Floor hatch. Link mechanism to lever
Result: Dwarves leave items on the dump zone

Maybe setting the hatch to Internal will make a difference?
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Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 06:29:44 pm »

Make a dump pit that first drops the refuse onto a floor hatch, which then opens into a separate dump pit. That way the people trying to dump raiseable material won't be scared away by the undead in the pit.

I can't get this to work so far, if anyone has advice I'm all ears.

Code: [Select]

 ####
  ^ #
 ##h#
 ## #
 ####

side view

Trick is to lower the hatch one extra z-level.  That keeps your dwarves thinking they should dump over the edge, rather than setting the trash down.
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Carnes

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Re: Requesting Evil Embark advice
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 06:42:08 pm »

For dumping, try stretching the zone over the hole.  They will open the hatch and drop it down.  Flying zombies will escape though.  I prefer atom smash.

I think that keeping the surface as zombie free as possible is the key to success.  You can deal with five zombies far better than fifty.  If you completely lose surface access then the game takes a nose dive, imo.  No trading and no migrants.  You might as well embark on joyous wilds, burrow down, and pretend there are zombies outside.

Section off everything into little cells.  If there is a zombie outbreak, you can lock down the affected area and rally the troops.  This works for the surface too.  Removing ramps, building walls, and digging trenches can section off large parts of the map.  Traps at choke points can also slow down zombie spirals.

Note though that i have only experienced failure with superzombies... :(  Proximity type infections make it extremely hard to keep the surface.
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