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Author Topic: Adamantine and Slade Science together with physics quirks  (Read 202684 times)

dbay

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #210 on: March 15, 2012, 11:20:10 pm »

Crossbow arms don't impede with the bolt at all, the bolt sits on top in a sort of groove. I was about to say, "well, DF crossbows are made of steel so surely the spring speed thingy is way faster than conventional crossbows" before realizing all crossbows had a set launch force thingy. (I know physics very particular definitions for terms like force and power, but my science is really rusty so they all just mean "oomph" for the purposes of this post)
So presumably, if the crossbow's arms are made of steel, they're made a lot thinner than they would be if they were wood. Dwarves are clever like that.

This brings me to my next point: just like Adamantine has some weird, non-real-world properties, as do Dwarf Crossbows: they launch with the same oomph regardless of how heavy the bolt was. I figure if we should be consistent, and fire our crazy tricked-out impossible metals from the crazy impossible crossbows. A DF crossbow firing a near-weightless bolt really would launch it at the speed of crazy, if not for imposed arbitrary speed cap.
...Which, now that I think about it, might be representative of the speed of the bow string.

Anyways, here are the crossbow's stats for reference:
[SHOOT_FORCE:1000] (Any idea how many Urists to a Newton?)
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:1000]  (in what, Urists per frame?)

To the best of my knowledge, a higher shoot_force than what would allow the bolt to go at the max velocity doesn't give it any more oomph, right? so the max velocity is like the bowstring's speed. So I think what we need to figure out is, does a candy bolt a)hit the maximum velocity, and b)is that fast enough to offset the mass problem? Is there a fast enough to offset the problem?

Also - the idea about the slade core bolts is pretty brilliant.

Lastly, re: Mrhappyface on chain mail: Mail makes pretty terrible padding. I don't really know much about the science, but I know a heck of a lot about archaic armour. The point of mail is to keep the other guy's weapon from cutting you, but not to stop or even distribute much the force (read:oomph, not necessarily Force, I don't really know) of the blow. It was extremely common for people to get broken bones and various other internal trauma from hits even when wearing mail, without it breaking the skin at all. That's why underneath it, people wore thick leather/wool padding (also because it got really cold). Plate armour, on the other hand, stops the cutting and distributes the impact, but had the disadvantage of having to be made all in one piece, which was a lot more skill and tech-intensive (though less time-consuming) than making hundreds of little metal rings (which could be done by apprentices). It was also more difficult to repair for the same reason (rings could be swapped out without much trouble). Adamantine would make excellent mail armour because of how hard it would be to break, although it's high rigidity would be wasted (wouldn't make things worse, but wouldn't help much). In current dwarf fortress combat rules, I don't think wearing leather underneath your armour adds a lot, though. Thus the effectiveness of blunt weapons. Interestingly, from what I've read (based on Roman-level tech, anyways, things might have changed by the middle ages) it was virtually impossible to actually penetrate armour with a cutting or stabbing weapon back in the day without siege weaponry or certain kinds of axes. Soldiers were trained to go for the unprotected feet and neck (gross, I know) which is where most of the injuries we find on skeletons are, and in general armies with armour had absolutely enormous advantages over armies without (barring other concerns, like surprise, treachery, and ambush. see: Teutoburg forest.). So in that respect, Dwarf Fortress has it absolutely dead on. It's the first game/movie/book/anything I've seen actually get that right. I love this game.

Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #211 on: March 15, 2012, 11:25:41 pm »

...
Anyways, here are the crossbow's stats for reference:
[SHOOT_FORCE:1000] (Any idea how many Urists to a Newton?)
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:1000]  (in what, Urists per frame?)

To the best of my knowledge, a higher shoot_force than what would allow the bolt to go at the max velocity doesn't give it any more oomph, right? so the max velocity is like the bowstring's speed. So I think what we need to figure out is, does a candy bolt a)hit the maximum velocity, and b)is that fast enough to offset the mass problem? Is there a fast enough to offset the problem?
...

If you add several more zeroes to the shoot force and maxvel, crossbows get enough knockback to fling creatures across the map and explode them. No recoil though.

ab00

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #212 on: March 15, 2012, 11:26:57 pm »

Adamantine flechettes - Ability to slice, dice, and blow everything in front of the launcher into sub-atomic particles.
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gzoker

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #213 on: March 15, 2012, 11:57:14 pm »

It is so nice to see, that a simple question can make so many people think, and create their own theories about a made up material which has so little significance in real life. This is why this community is so awesome, except the people shouting magic all the time - if you don't like to think, you don't have to. But let other people enjoy it, please.

In my imagination, an adamantine string is consist of one atom only rather than a chain of atoms. Its nucleus is string like, and its electron cloud becomes rather pointy at both ends because of the superposition of forces. That is because the atom is present not just in the moment, but lags behind into the past, and it is already in the future. It moves before itself, cutting time and space itself. It's density is low because it takes up volume in the past and the future too. Its structure makes it rigid, but if it breaks, it folds into itself, and ceases to exist.
It is forged by manipulating this time shift, changing its visible length, then pressing the adamantine atoms so hard that they become a single atom unable to be changed forever.

Also using adamantine projectiles could have en effect similar to radiation poisoning, due to cutting the bonds in proteins and those won't go back together easily.
If you shoot them enough with really small adamantine bolts, than you are shooting them with cancer basically.
And now i'm going to sleep, because this much science was too much for a day.
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Gizogin

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #214 on: March 16, 2012, 12:13:50 am »

If you shoot them enough with really small adamantine bolts, than you are shooting them with cancer basically.

I'm totally sigging this.
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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #215 on: March 16, 2012, 01:42:09 am »

Hey... if adamantine is perfectly rigid, would it mean sound travels at FTL speeds in adamantine?
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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #216 on: March 16, 2012, 02:22:45 am »

Either it should travel at the maximum possible speed (which would be lightspeed, in our universe) or it wouldn't conduct pressure waves (aka sound) at all.  Not really sure which. 
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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #217 on: March 16, 2012, 07:13:03 am »

So if you made an adamantine hoop stretching all the way around the world, with a small gap of say a metre where the operator stands, if the operator hit one of the exposed ends of the hoop, the other end would move corresponsdingly before the hit happened???
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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #218 on: March 16, 2012, 07:23:43 am »

Lastly, re: Mrhappyface on chain mail: Mail makes pretty terrible padding. I don't really know much about the science, but I know a heck of a lot about archaic armour. The point of mail is to keep the other guy's weapon from cutting you, but not to stop or even distribute much the force (read:oomph, not necessarily Force, I don't really know) of the blow. It was extremely common for people to get broken bones and various other internal trauma from hits even when wearing mail, without it breaking the skin at all. That's why underneath it, people wore thick leather/wool padding (also because it got really cold). Plate armour, on the other hand, stops the cutting and distributes the impact, but had the disadvantage of having to be made all in one piece, which was a lot more skill and tech-intensive (though less time-consuming) than making hundreds of little metal rings (which could be done by apprentices). It was also more difficult to repair for the same reason (rings could be swapped out without much trouble). Adamantine would make excellent mail armour because of how hard it would be to break, although it's high rigidity would be wasted (wouldn't make things worse, but wouldn't help much). In current dwarf fortress combat rules, I don't think wearing leather underneath your armour adds a lot, though. Thus the effectiveness of blunt weapons. Interestingly, from what I've read (based on Roman-level tech, anyways, things might have changed by the middle ages) it was virtually impossible to actually penetrate armour with a cutting or stabbing weapon back in the day without siege weaponry or certain kinds of axes. Soldiers were trained to go for the unprotected feet and neck (gross, I know) which is where most of the injuries we find on skeletons are, and in general armies with armour had absolutely enormous advantages over armies without (barring other concerns, like surprise, treachery, and ambush. see: Teutoburg forest.). So in that respect, Dwarf Fortress has it absolutely dead on. It's the first game/movie/book/anything I've seen actually get that right. I love this game.
Sorry for not clarifying. My point was that wearing addy mail alone isn't a very good idea, due to its incredibly low weight. While it can stop you from being cut and such, it's not too different from wearing indestructible latex gloves. Linear momentum=Mass*Velocity, and while not necessarily "padding", steel mail reduces force significantly more compared to candy, due to it weighing 50 times as much. Adamantine plating is much more useful in my opinion, with several layers of steel mail underneath.
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Oliolli

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #219 on: March 16, 2012, 07:28:15 am »

So if you made an adamantine hoop stretching all the way around the world, with a small gap of say a metre where the operator stands, if the operator hit one of the exposed ends of the hoop, the other end would move corresponsdingly before the hit happened???

It would move at the exact same time. It takes light about 1/7 of a second to travel around the world,  while the adamantine hoop would have absolutely no delay.
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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #220 on: March 16, 2012, 09:14:19 am »

If that's the case of rigidity...  Hmm...  Assume you had a large pivot (in space) with a rod of adamantine some astronomical length.  Considering adamantine's insignificant weight, you should be able to spin this pivot quickly.  If the adamantine was long enough and the spin quick enough, could the tip of the rod achieve lightspeed?

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #221 on: March 16, 2012, 09:15:32 am »

I've been thinking of a similar concept as well. Never had the resources to try it out though :/
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forsaken1111

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #222 on: March 16, 2012, 09:22:54 am »

If that's the case of rigidity...  Hmm...  Assume you had a large pivot (in space) with a rod of adamantine some astronomical length.  Considering adamantine's insignificant weight, you should be able to spin this pivot quickly.  If the adamantine was long enough and the spin quick enough, could the tip of the rod achieve lightspeed?
The energy input required to move the tip of the rod at lightspeed would still be the same as attempting to move a craft at lightspeed. Levers and pivots don't magically magnify energy.

RE: Sound in adamantine

If Adamantine is perfectly rigid and does not flex, it would not transmit sound at all. Sound relies on slight compression waves traveling through a substance, and adamantine being perfectly rigid would disallow compression waves or any other type of change within the structure.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 09:25:22 am by forsaken1111 »
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Girlinhat

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #223 on: March 16, 2012, 09:37:29 am »

If that is the case then adamantine would also have no temperature, as temperature relies on the vibration of atoms and adamantine is rigid, then it cannot vibrate and cannot exhibit temperature.

We must presume that a macro-scale adamantine sheet does not flex, but a micro-scale set of atoms are capable of vibrating.

Awessum Possum

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Re: Adamantine Science and physics quirks
« Reply #224 on: March 16, 2012, 09:39:46 am »

Lastly, re: Mrhappyface on chain mail: Mail makes pretty terrible padding. I don't really know much about the science, but I know a heck of a lot about archaic armour. The point of mail is to keep the other guy's weapon from cutting you, but not to stop or even distribute much the force (read:oomph, not necessarily Force, I don't really know) of the blow. It was extremely common for people to get broken bones and various other internal trauma from hits even when wearing mail, without it breaking the skin at all. That's why underneath it, people wore thick leather/wool padding (also because it got really cold). Plate armour, on the other hand, stops the cutting and distributes the impact, but had the disadvantage of having to be made all in one piece, which was a lot more skill and tech-intensive (though less time-consuming) than making hundreds of little metal rings (which could be done by apprentices). It was also more difficult to repair for the same reason (rings could be swapped out without much trouble). Adamantine would make excellent mail armour because of how hard it would be to break, although it's high rigidity would be wasted (wouldn't make things worse, but wouldn't help much). In current dwarf fortress combat rules, I don't think wearing leather underneath your armour adds a lot, though. Thus the effectiveness of blunt weapons. Interestingly, from what I've read (based on Roman-level tech, anyways, things might have changed by the middle ages) it was virtually impossible to actually penetrate armour with a cutting or stabbing weapon back in the day without siege weaponry or certain kinds of axes. Soldiers were trained to go for the unprotected feet and neck (gross, I know) which is where most of the injuries we find on skeletons are, and in general armies with armour had absolutely enormous advantages over armies without (barring other concerns, like surprise, treachery, and ambush. see: Teutoburg forest.). So in that respect, Dwarf Fortress has it absolutely dead on. It's the first game/movie/book/anything I've seen actually get that right. I love this game.
And thus you have the Lorica segmenta not as good as plate (I think) but better than chain. Really hard to maintain though. Do you know why Lorica segment fell into disuse?

So... If Addy can split atoms wouldn't that cause nuclear fission every time you scored a hit? Or if an addy blade was so thin it could slip right through an atom, would that mean that it could pass right through a target and leave it unharmed?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ooh! If only adamantine were just a tincey tiny bit less than perfectly rigid, than we could have candy weapons vibrating at super high speeds the results would be... destructive.
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