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Author Topic: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game  (Read 37059 times)

Oliolli

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2012, 11:41:22 pm »

That said, making fun of Call of Duty is like taking candy from a mentally retarded paraplegic child: easy, not very satisfying, and rather pathetic when you stop to think about it.

Did you just compare CoD to "a mentally retarded paraplegic child"?

Fitting  :-\
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CodexDraco

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2012, 07:02:28 pm »

Stealing candy from a retarded paraplegic child is harder of what you might think, but I agree is not very satisfying.
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Pokon

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2012, 07:34:23 pm »

Stealing candy from a retarded paraplegic child is harder of what you might think, but I agree is not very satisfying.
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Teneb

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2012, 08:09:27 pm »

Stealing candy from a retarded paraplegic child is harder of what you might think, but I agree is not very satisfying.

I think I'll stick that in my sig...
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dizzyelk

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2012, 11:59:39 pm »

As someone who used to play the original syndicate on the Amiga as a boy I should kill you were you posted for that comment!

Don't forget the procedurally generated quests with loot and none of that pointless plot and setting (I'm looking at you skyrim - specifically those godawful dark brotherhood quests)

Also all armour will come in four pieces; gloves, breastplate, boots and helmet so our designers don't have to bother dealing with overlap issues.

We'll keep the long speeches, but instead of a wall of easily skippable text it's going to be a ten minute speech by whichever vaguely famous berk we can find, and it'll be completely unskippable

In case you can't see what I'm doing here; f*** you Bethesda! Skyrim is a good game, but it feels like you cut every corner possible and threw in as many marketing gimmicks as you thought you could get away with.
There's a reason Fallout 3 was the last Bethesda game I've bother playing. Bethesda seems to be VERY good at making huge worlds I want to explore, then stocking them with the most forgettable NPCs of any RPG I've played past the mid 80s.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2012, 12:24:36 am »

As someone who used to play the original syndicate on the Amiga as a boy I should kill you were you posted for that comment!

Don't forget the procedurally generated quests with loot and none of that pointless plot and setting (I'm looking at you skyrim - specifically those godawful dark brotherhood quests)

Also all armour will come in four pieces; gloves, breastplate, boots and helmet so our designers don't have to bother dealing with overlap issues.

We'll keep the long speeches, but instead of a wall of easily skippable text it's going to be a ten minute speech by whichever vaguely famous berk we can find, and it'll be completely unskippable

In case you can't see what I'm doing here; f*** you Bethesda! Skyrim is a good game, but it feels like you cut every corner possible and threw in as many marketing gimmicks as you thought you could get away with.
There's a reason Fallout 3 was the last Bethesda game I've bother playing. Bethesda seems to be VERY good at making huge worlds I want to explore, then stocking them with the most forgettable NPCs of any RPG I've played past the mid 80s.

There are many good reasons to complain about Skyrim (Dizzyelk hits on a good one, in particular), but I don't think "they merged pants with shirts" is a particularly pressing issue.

Most of Skyrim's flaws will be compensated for by the absolutely wonderful modding community that symbiotically thrives upon whatever buggy trainwreck Bethesda heaves out.  I know that one of the major things people are working on is exactly adding those extremely deep narratives alongside individual NPCs that modders can add all the depth to they can stand, without having to worry about having some stupid voice acting ruin it all.

Procedural quests, likewise, may become actually interesting as modders expand them to actually have real meaning in a more dynamic world than Bethesda was capable of creating.
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werechicken

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2012, 02:00:56 pm »

My complaint about armour merging was just to highlight how lazy certain parts of the game feel. Dwarf fortress is incredibly detail oriented, most large production company games tend to look very flashy but are seriously lacking in depth and detail.

You can actually track the dumbing down and preference for style over substance as a games popularity increases (to keep with my original point look at morrowind, oblivion then skyrim)

If df.was developed by EA or any other large developer adventure mode would probably end up looking like a family friendly dragon age and fortress mode would probably play like warcraft
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2012, 02:56:19 pm »

On the Bethesda forums, this exact argument takes place millions of times over, and the "dumbing down" is most generally attributed to putting Michael Kirkbride into less and less of a role in guiding narrative decisions, and trying to make the game primarily for the XBox crowd, instead of the PC crowd.  You might call that the same thing, but oh boy does it throw gasoline on the system flamewars.

In a sense, though, only the slimmest minority ever got the substance of TES or Kirkbride's ramblings on the conflict of Gnosticism versus Existentialism over a subjective reality, even at its height... they just liked the style of it when it was there, even though they didn't spend the time to really understand it.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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werechicken

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2012, 10:52:11 pm »

LOL I guess its just a case of another game being dumbed down for the console tards,  as yahtzee.would say.

That's the problem with modern gaming, due to the increasingly dictorial DRM people are turning to consoles, which are aimed at people with the intellectual level of chimps.

The pro with any media at the moment is that if its for profit them it's aimed at the lowest common demonitor.

I know I'll get crucified for this, but, I can't help wondering of the communists had won would the world be a bit less crap?

The only reason America went to the moon was because the communists got into space first. Who knows what they would have done if it had been a scythe and sickle instead.

My point is that this seems to be common with allot of capitalist companies that they only do something out of spite. The problem is dictorial countries are much better ay advancing human knowledge. While democracy is better at placating the masses.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2012, 11:23:57 pm »

Oh, now that's an unusual statement...

Let me just say this, though -

In Russia, the intellectual class used to have a saying for people who pointed out obviously better ways to do things than Communist orthodoxy, "Sure, comrade, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?" 

Even when there was black-and-white proof of the failures of Communism, the ideological rigidity was so strong that they refused to take the obvious measures to save their own skin...

In China, now, they have a different saying, when asked how they reconcile their radically changing social structure with Communism -

"We will do what works, and then we'll call that 'Socialism'."

To a certain degree, I kind of wish that we'd learn to do the same thing with "Free Market Enterprise" - sometimes the invisible hand isn't strong enough to keep the investment bankers from scamming each other and the entire global economy straight over a cliff, but ideological rigidity makes explaining such things impossible.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
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Oliolli

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2012, 11:36:21 pm »

I know I'll get crucified for this, but, I can't help wondering of the communists had won would the world be a bit less crap?

The only reason America went to the moon was because the communists got into space first. Who knows what they would have done if it had been a scythe and sickle instead.

*Crucifies werechiken for saying "America went to the moon"*

It was the USA that did it... America is a massive landmass between the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic. The United States of America is the name of the country.

I have no problem with you wondering how things would have worked out had the USSR won, on the other hand.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 11:38:02 pm by Oliolli »
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Grumbledwarfskin

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2012, 07:41:58 am »

My point is that this seems to be common with allot of capitalist companies that they only do something out of spite. The problem is dictorial countries are much better ay advancing human knowledge. While democracy is better at placating the masses.

I'm afraid you don't know your history very well. Sure, the soviets were the first to produce satellites, and the communist system was good at mega-projects. But if you compare the millions of innovations made in the western with the thousands made in Soviet countries, you'll find there was always more innovation going on over here.

Part of the problem was this: in the Soviet economy, everything was planned in five-year chunks. So, in the fifth year, what car you're getting was decided five years ago, not based on market trends from the last year, and the latest innovations from R&D. This applies to *every* consumer industry.

A bigger part of the problem was this, however: suppose that in a capitalist country there were a big problem that you knew about. Let's say the problem is that crops are rotting in the fields because there aren't enough trucks to drive them to the warehouses (a very common problem in Soviet Russia). In a capitalist country, it works like this: you go to the bank and tell them your businiess plan, "I'm going to buy this truck, and then I'll be able to get jobs driving the crops to the warehouses to pay for the truck." The plan is financially solid, so the bank gives you the loan, both you and the bank make a profit, and everyone in the country benefits as a result of your combined actions: food is cheaper for the buyers because there's more of it, and the farmers were able to sell their crops which would have otherwise rotted.

To solve that same issue in a Soviet economy, you'd be petitioning the five-year-plan committee to produce more trucks in the next five year cycle and allocate them to transporting crops. And you wouldn't be rewarding innovation by buying the most reliable, fuel-efficient truck on the marketplace, you'd end up with whatever they decided to produce in five years.
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Mohreb el Yasim

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2012, 04:56:34 pm »

Who/what is the final boss?
Did you not just answer that question?
&
I read it that way first time ... really need to go out some more time ...

And for all those FPS hatred ... i love FPS, set it to 150 and only sad if it goes below 70 ...

Back on the subject, really not fond of new selling models on the market and
the mostly medicore quality of games of today (rant:rant:rant ...)
but hope DF will continue his amazing way until at least it reaches 1.0 (or even 2.0 )
All Hail Toady One !!!
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Mohreb el Yasim


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Masta Crouton

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2012, 05:37:35 pm »

things in the past are better!


literally the oldest argument on the internet.

*yawn*
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Graknorke

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Re: *POOF!* Dwarf Fortress is now a generic adventure game
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2012, 01:27:29 pm »

things in the past are better!


literally the oldest argument on the internet.

*yawn*

Not really. The newest DF is newer than the newest CoD.
Guess which is better.
Hardly surprising.

Also I don't think it's "old things are better". It's more like "new things need to stop being so terrible". For my example I will take FIFA. FIFA is a football (the one you play with your feet) management game in which you can transfer players, compete in leagues and train players. The gameplay consists of the player controlling whichever member of their team is closest to the ball.
While, sure, it doesn't sound like an inherently bad game, the problem is the annual releases. Every year there is a new release (around £50 for consoles!) which is only justified as a new release because it adds some new gimmick; this year it was a system to make characters collide more realistically. The main justification is players being traded between teams etc, but really that could be included in a patch or something. It's not a good excuse.

The problem with it is that the gameplay has become stagnant, the only new features are either graphical updates or gimmicks (who cares in what detail their striker fell down? All that matters is that he did!), and yet people still buy it. Because it's popular. That's all something seems to need to be a success nowadays, to have a history of popularity.
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