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Author Topic: Cogmind 7DRL (sci-fi roguelike from the creator of X@COM)  (Read 109053 times)

EuchreJack

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2012, 07:10:10 am »

Also, it would be nice to have a detailed hitting and missing log.
Hm, does everyone really want that much extra text filling the message log? Perhaps not all hits/misses, but instead just a summary of your own volleys? Enemy hits on you are apparent because your parts lose integrity. So maybe you fire and it says something like: "Volley (3): 2 misses, 1 hit"

A toggle might be nice, to test out new weapon configurations.

Dariush

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2012, 07:26:12 am »

Wow, after getting nearly destroyed I stymbled onto an improved flight unit. And then a second one. 500% speed is awesome. 8 total support is not.

Also, for some reason with the following status I keep losing 6 energy every turn. Whyyy. :(
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 07:28:24 am by Dariush »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2012, 07:27:11 am »

A toggle might be nice, to test out new weapon configurations.
Good idea, adding it right now. There'll be four levels of detail you can cycle through, from the current default down to specifics for every weapon fired.

Well, then remove the fullscreen entirely. In it's current state it's completely useless.
It was originally an experimental addition to the engine for X@COM. I accidentally removed the "not fully implemented" comment from its description, thinking I had finished it some time ago. Just don't use it for now.

Fix3 is on the way.
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Cogmind - Sci-fi Roguelike (devblog) | X@COM - The X-COM RL | REXPaint - ASCII art editor | Patreon

Dariush

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2012, 07:36:36 am »

How exactly do propulsion stats work? Treads have 100 speed and flight units have 35, but that doesn't seem right. Also, what are 'mod/extra' and 'penalty' parameters?

Aaaand by the way, please add the ability to also display hits and misses on the player.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 07:40:48 am by Dariush »
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Drakale

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2012, 08:47:43 am »

Love the game. Have anyone managed to make a successful combat efficient flying robot? With the weight limits, I have to few parts to survive any engagement. It's pretty easy to just breeze through levels with it though.
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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2012, 09:04:10 am »

When a bot sends a distress signal, does that spawn more guards or just cause nearby ones to close in to that point?
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2012, 09:09:14 am »

Fix3 is ready! Get it from the files page.

From the changelog:
* FIX: Firing a multi-weapon volley in which you destroy a one of your own weapons after it is fired no longer crashes the game
* FIX: Player does not receive ridiculous number of points for killing self
* FIX: Tab-cycling through robots/items works in fullscreen mode
* FIX: FOV updated for each shot in a volley if necessary
* MOD: Faulty prototypes show red in parts/inventory lists
* NEW: Optionally increase combat details shown in the log

So it turns out I didn't find the destroy-your-own-weapon bug earlier because it required that you fire a multi-weapon volley, destroying one of the weapons you had already fired before, before the bug would actually happen. FIXED, finally...

You can try out the new combat output. By default it's OFF, so you'll have to press 'q' to cycle through the options and get what you want. Not sure the format is all that great, and it's a bit verbose for the small log area, but at least you'll get the info you've been wanting.

As usual, all the older "fix" versions are still valid for the high score competition, but the latest version is highly recommended since it is less likely to crash.

Love the game. Have anyone managed to make a successful combat efficient flying robot? With the weight limits, I have to few parts to survive any engagement. It's pretty easy to just breeze through levels with it though.
Flying robots are generally not going to be truly combat efficient. That would take a lot of prototype parts, some of which you can't find until the later levels.

How exactly do propulsion stats work? Treads have 100 speed and flight units have 35, but that doesn't seem right. Also, what are 'mod/extra' and 'penalty' parameters?
The "speed" stat should really be renamed. It refers to the amount of time units it requires to move one cell, so unburdened flight at 35 is about 3x as fast as treads (100). Lower = better (as it describes in the manual).

"Mod/extra" means "mod per extra", or speed modifier for each extra unit beyond the first. So a +5 for treads means they actually get slower with extra treads, but can carry much more and are therefore less likely to be penalized for weight. Hover/flight have negative modifiers, so they always get faster as you attach more.

The "penalty" is the speed penalty (+X) for being overweight. It is applied once if you are overweight, and more times again for each "support amount" you are overweight beyond that. Ex: Light treads speed = 100, support = 10, and penalty = 20. You can carry up to 10 weight without being penalized, but if you carry 11, your speed value is increased to 120 (takes more time to move one cell). Carrying <= 19 weight is all that same speed. As soon as you carry 20+, your speed is again penalized (+20), so then it's 140. It'll keep penalizing you the more you go overweight, but only in intervals equal to the base support value.

When a bot sends a distress signal, does that spawn more guards or just cause nearby ones to close in to that point?
A message about a "distress signal" means it has notified some nearby combat robots.
A message about "calling reinforcements" means it has called new robots into the level (always through stairs) and given them your exact position. (Think twice before attacking escorted Haulers.)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 09:11:01 am by Kyzrati »
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Cogmind - Sci-fi Roguelike (devblog) | X@COM - The X-COM RL | REXPaint - ASCII art editor | Patreon

Dariush

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2012, 09:15:11 am »

Holy fuck, that was fast. Downloading right now. You're awesome, Kyzrati. :D

The "penalty" is the speed penalty (+X) for being overweight. It is applied once if you are overweight, and more times again for each "support amount" you are overweight beyond that. Ex: Light treads speed = 100, support = 10, and penalty = 20. You can carry up to 10 weight without being penalized, but if you carry 11, your speed value is increased to 120 (takes more time to move one cell). Carrying <= 19 weight is all that same speed. As soon as you carry 20+, your speed is again penalized (+20), so then it's 140. It'll keep penalizing you the more you go overweight, but only in intervals equal to the base support value.
Oh. Manual entry pleeease?

Also, how exactly do enemies get player's position? Do they know the whole level at all times? How do they track the player? Is their field of view the same as the player's? Can they not see the player if the player sees them? Do they use some non-visual spotting? Can enemies interact with each other apart from distress signal sending?

And some miscellanous questions:
1) How does recoil work?
2) What is the base chance of hitting before all the bonuses in the manual are applied?
3) Something is wrong with the energy (and possibly also heat and matter) calculation. For example, in the screenshot below the total energy should be positive. However, every time I move, 6 energy for movement is substracted, but nothing is added and no upkeep is substracted. The last two changes are only applied every several turns (every 5, judging by my speed).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
4) What do engine's rating and heat stability affect?
5) What does weapon's 'time' parameter affect?
6) What's the movement speed and penalty of the core? (i.e. if I'm moving without any propulsion)
Really, a detailed description of every parameter in the manual would be epic.

EDIT: Ok, downloaded. First impressions: YAY LOG. Second: argh, not sufficiently detailed. Maybe add displaying which parts are hit? Also, display of specific hit bonuses would be awesome. And the salvage modifiers in the volley display. But the parts display is the top priority, along with the chance of hitting the hit part.

EDIT2: What.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
How did I destroy him after a miss?... BTW, different colors for the player's and enemies' misses would be awesome.

EDIT3: Also, please add an option to remove the matrix-style text loading when viewing descriptions. Makes comparing different items' stats a pain.

EDIT4: Could you please add an option to scrap the unhelpful speed in percentages and instead use the time per tile? And add some way to get the speed of enemies.

EDIT5: Maybe you should add a second accuracy rating to explosive weapons - a chance to hit with the explosion (not a direct hit)?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 10:46:41 am by Dariush »
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Drakale

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2012, 09:57:00 am »

I think the excessive energy consumption effect come from faster than 100% speed making you expend movement energy more than once per "turn". ie. 200% move makes you expend 2x your move energy before your reactor replenish one tick. Which makes sense, but is confusing when you consider the status screen stats. Maybe movement energy use should be compounded by the actual move speed.
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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2012, 10:08:40 am »

I found an advanced targeting computer with +12% accuracy, and it made a *hell* of a difference.  I was sad to see it go.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2012, 10:43:05 am »

Posting to watch. Been playing this since it was released, just now noticed the thread.
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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2012, 10:43:55 am »

Also, Shock Bomb Launchers are awesome.  I found two together.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2012, 10:49:47 am »

Holy fuck, that was fast. Downloading right now. You're awesome, Kyzrati. :D
Of course I'm fast, how else could I have made this game in 7 days? ;)

Also, how exactly do enemies get player's position? Do they know the whole level at all times? How do they track the player? Is their field of view the same as the player's? Can they not see the player if the player sees them? Do they use some non-visual spotting? Can enemies interact with each other apart from distress signal sending?
My, my, so full of questions! ;D
I'd prefer to not give out too many specifics on how AI operates, since I don't want players gaming the system. Some of the more obvious things you'd figure out eventually though:
-Yes, they use the same sort of FOV as you, though ranges vary, so having a longer visual range than them gives you an advantage. As is, some enemies have a longer visual range than your default. I was considering adding some sort of visual cue indicating whether a given robot has noticed, but didn't get a chance to do that yet. I also think that might be going too far into the realm of knowing stuff you shouldn't necessarily know. Logically speaking it makes sense with creatures, but not always with robots.
-Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you! You don't want a Watcher class robot running around spotting you every few turns and alerting all his friends... They always follow set patrol paths, though, so if you have sensors which can distinguish robots out of view you can avoid them pretty easily.

Okay, you already know too much!

And some miscellanous questions:
1) How does recoil work?
2) What is the base chance of hitting before all the bonuses in the manual are applied?
3) Something is wrong with the energy (and possibly also heat and matter) calculation. For example, in the screenshot below the total energy should be positive. However, every time I move, 6 energy for movement is substracted, but nothing is added and no upkeep is substracted. The last two changes are only applied every several turns (every 5, judging by my speed).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
4) What do engine's rating and heat stability affect?
5) What does weapon's 'time' parameter affect?
6) What's the movement speed and penalty of the core? (i.e. if I'm moving without any propulsion)
Really, a detailed description of every parameter in the manual would be epic.
Thanks for all the questions. I do want to put all the stats and more explanations in the manual, because it really is a lot of them. I'll get around to it.

1) -X% to all *other* weapons' hit chance in the same volley
2) 60%
3) 500% movement, wow... About the energy, as Drakale says, it's not as much an error in the calculation as it is an inaccurate way to display the information. Power is only generated once per turn, and movement at a rate > 200% would mean 2+ moves each time you generate power. I hadn't really thought of that effect when I wrote the status screen (or even did the stats, for that matter). I should multiply the values shown, I guess, though that could be somewhat annoying since it will fluctuate a lot more based on your changing speed. Maybe put both pieces of information...
4) All items have a rating--it's just the game's name for their "level", a way to quickly compare which items are probably better than others. Heat stability is the %chance an engine will not shutdown when it overheats.
5) Time it takes to fire that weapon. 200 is the base time it takes to fire.
6) Core speed=50, penalty=50, support=3, energy cost=1, heat=0

EDIT: Ok, downloaded. First impressions: YAY LOG. Second: argh, not sufficiently detailed. Maybe add displaying which parts are hit? Also, display of specific hit bonuses would be awesome. And the salvage modifiers in the volley display. But the parts display is the top priority, along with the chance of hitting the hit part.
I guess I could add which parts are hit, and yeah, the weapon-specific bonuses would be a nice addition, but I wanted to try and avoid each line from getting too long though, since there are so many. Chance of hitting the hit part, too, hm... You want a lot of info. Almost sounds like you want to debug the game! 8) The log is way small for all this...

Salvage mod in volley display is a good idea, so long as it fits under all situations. I'll check.

EDIT2: What.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
How did I destroy him after a miss?... BTW, different colors for the player's and enemies' misses would be awesome.
I'm sure there's a logical explanation for that. I'll have to find it. I haven't actually played with the new log info yet.

...(10 seconds later)...

Yeah, now that I think of it, you "missed" but still managed to hit him with the randomized miss trajectory. It's called luck! The text is determined by whether or not you failed your hit roll, not whether you actually hit your intended target or not.

EDIT3: Also, please add an option to remove the matrix-style text loading when viewing descriptions. Makes comparing different items' stats a pain.
I could do that. It'd be low on the priority list for now though.

EDIT4: Could you please add an option to scrap the unhelpful speed in percentages and instead use the time per tile? And add some way to get the speed of enemies.
I think the percentages are more helpful for the average player, since most aren't calculating out the details (nor do I). An option would be okay, but then the stats would also need to be renamed under each option so that they make sense.
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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2012, 10:51:31 am »

Kyzrati, the graphical effect for the Proton Missile launcher is, by far, the coolest thing I have seen in any roguelike.

And they're sweet weapons besides!
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Dariush

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #74 on: March 27, 2012, 11:01:46 am »

5) Time it takes to fire that weapon. 200 is the base time it takes to fire.
So the weapons in a volley get their times summed, but get a little less due to the volley effect?

Also, yay bugs.
1) When an enemy fires from outside FOV, his shots aren't reported in the log;
2) Faulty prototypes are auto-identified.
3) A prototype wheel turned out to be... a wheel. :(
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 11:13:34 am by Dariush »
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