Dwarf Fortress > DF Suggestions

Semi-Sapiants

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GreatWyrmGold:
Alright, since I finally noticed that reply, I will.

At some point when I have more time.

Masked_Hunter1825:
Lets face it. The first thing everyone would do if this got implemented, would be to have Cave-fish-man citizens.

NW_Kohaku:

--- Quote from: Masked_Hunter1825 on May 05, 2012, 03:30:47 pm ---Lets face it. The first thing everyone would do if this got implemented, would be to have Cave-fish-man citizens.

--- End quote ---

I~t's beginning to look a lot like fishmen, e~verywhere I go. 

Now if only we could get cross-breeding rules...

To go back to the serious side of the suggestions, though, I do think that one of the better ways to make the animal-people cultures less of a resource to just be exploited on the assumption that they would of course want to become a part of "superior dwarven culture" (because, really, who WOULDN'T look at the squalid hole your dwarves live in and instantly become green with envy... or is it green from the choking sulfurous gasses from all the magma you pipe over your blasted Hellscape?) would be both the use of a "cultural pride" meter and the pressures they face from external forces.  A culture that has faces no military threats and can feed itself well has no need to risk trusting those crazy dwarves and working hard labor in dwarven mines for food they can already get elsewhere.  A starving or militarily defeated and demoralized culture, meanwhile, will be willing to make a deal with the Devil, and if they're even more desperate, worse, players to take a wild shot at survival. 

If they become less desperate, they may want to have relations cool somewhat and bargain for better deals for their continued labor or break off.  Cultural indoctrination should be a very slow thing unless players use totally brutal methods, such as the infamous Stolen Children methods of Australia, and so it could create a situation where just plain being nice may not always get you everything you want, but cruelty can have disastrous long-running consequences as well, (provided you can't just genocide them out,) so that skill with negotiation may play a greater role than simple noble intentions or ironfisted power. 

To add to this, you could have a degree of difficult-to-control dwarven sympathy/prejudice, where good treatment of natives will lead to some dwarves being angry, and poor treatment of natives, especially ones that are friends to those dwarves, will lead to other dwarves becoming angry.

GreatWyrmGold:
That being said, some cultures should probably see the dwarves as possessing a culture superior in, if not every way, then in by far enough ways that they'd gladly shuck their old ways of life to join them. I remember stories about a variety of native cultures destroying their cultural artifacts because anti-pagan Christian religious leaders or what-have-you told them to, and one instance where some Polynesians changed their drainage ditches from vertical to horizontal at the Europeans' suggestion (the gardens got washed away the next time a big rainfall came along). That's assuming that their religion isn't unfortunately geared towards misinterpreting your dwarves as gods, as famously occurred to the Aztecs.

Also bear in mind that, if we're talking about technologically/socially "inferior" races like the animalmen, there is historical precedent for treating them as a resource (enslaving them, that is), as well as for treating them like people (sometimes even inter-marriage) and genocide. Dwarves are against slavery, so they'd probably tend towards integration or extermination rather than subjugation, but that should be more a matter of ethics/unhappy thoughts/whatever than a game mechanic.

NW_Kohaku:

--- Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 05, 2012, 05:40:09 pm ---Also bear in mind that, if we're talking about technologically/socially "inferior" races like the animalmen, there is historical precedent for treating them as a resource (enslaving them, that is), as well as for treating them like people (sometimes even inter-marriage) and genocide. Dwarves are against slavery, so they'd probably tend towards integration or extermination rather than subjugation, but that should be more a matter of ethics/unhappy thoughts/whatever than a game mechanic.

--- End quote ---

Ethics/Unhappy thoughts/Whatever are game mechanics, however, (presuming most normal definitions of "Whatever",) and so that is a statement that needs a better description. 

Anyway, it's Personality Rewrite stuff, but making a xenophobia personality trait or derivative of their cultural ethics (probably with cross-pollenation, if possible). 

Likewise, some cultures having high cultural pride does not by any means preclude others from having low cultural pride and being willing to adopt any new practice that seems to come from a "superior culture".  In fact, you could just call it a "reticence to change" and apply it both ways, as the marker of dwarven xenophobia and how upset they will get at "the beastmen polluting our proud dwarven culture" just as much as the animalmen will see dwarven intervention as "brutish outsiders with no respect for the old ways". 

Conversely, it may be opposed by (or if simply at the low end of the spectrum of the xenophobia personality trait) some sort of cultural curiosity. 

We are supposed to be exploring the game not as some sort of deity, but as the consensus of the bureaucracy of the fortress itself.  To be subjected to pressures both from the animalmen and from the dwarven populace over every decision that you do or don't make, with the necessity to please every faction of each side could make the game's internal politics an interesting one.

... Suddenly, I'm merging this idea very heavily with the ideas I've had for expanding Class Warfare...

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