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Poll

How many eggs should creatures lay at a time?

Original amounts (chickens 4-15, crocodiles 20-60)
Something in between.
Modest Mod's current amounts (chickens 2-4, crocodiles 4-8)
Fewer than that.

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Author Topic: Modest Mod 2.1 - Now with graphics support!  (Read 46943 times)

Igfig

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Modest Mod 2.1 - Now with graphics support!
« on: March 28, 2012, 04:32:23 pm »

MODEST MOD 2.1
An essential mod for DF 0.34.11

Download
Download (Phoebus-compatible)
Download (Ironhand-compatible)

The Modest Mod is a collection of vital bugfixes and tweaks that everyone should be able to use comfortably and without reservation. This mod doesn't add anything new. It doesn't do anything controversial. It's just like vanilla DF, but a little better. French vanilla.

This is a mod for people who don't use mods. Don't think of it as a mod at all; it's really more of a patch. That said, it's also a good starting point for if you're making a new mod.

Included with this mod are a number of optional Modest Modules that you can use to further customize your game. These modules involve changes that, while popular, are a little too ambitious for the core mod.

Since I'm sure to have missed some things, and there are sure to be disagreements on what counts as 'vital', please don't hesitate to make your opinion known.  In particular, I have a list of things (see "Under Consideration" below) that I'm not quite sure are vital, but might include or kill entirely if people are adamant one way or the other.

Finally, there now exist two alternate versions of the Modest Mod intended specifically for use with the Ironhand and Phoebus tilesets. Be sure to install Modest Mod AFTER installing the graphics packs!

NEW: Ari Lazarus has written a plugin for Modest Mod! Check out the awesome Modest Bodies here!

Spoiler: List of Changes (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Changelog (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Under Consideration (click to show/hide)

Courtesy Arloban

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital fixes, nothing else
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 08:40:21 pm »

Posting to watch, because I couldn't find this topic when I was searching for it earlier.  I used words like bug and bugfix which isn't in the title.
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Maybe that the dwarves never died and everyone is just shunning them.
"Wait, what are you doing?  I don't want to go in there!  No, I'm still alive, you can't do this to me!  Is Anybody listening?  Hello... Can someone let me out?  Help me!  Is anyone there?  I'm running out of air!"

plaidman

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital fixes, nothing else
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 09:04:27 pm »

This looks really cool. Like Masterwork but without the extra masterworky stuff, which can't be turned on/off on a mac. Speaking of which, any plans on making a mac version? Pretty please?? Or maybe releasing source to have someone with a mac try to build it?

Igfig

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital fixes, nothing else
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 06:08:22 pm »

Updated to DF v0.34.07.

Yeah, Meph and I took a lot of our inspiration from the same place. Masterwork was a pretty good checklist for me while I was developing the Modest Mod, although the actual changes differ (he has some things I don't consider vital, and I've got some new tricks of my own).

The Modest Mod should work just as well on Macs as on PCs. Just unzip it into your DF folder.

dree12

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 06:44:48 pm »

I understand most of these changes, but not this:

Quote
Stopped pause and recenter on migrant arrival

What is the point of this? It's generally important to reassign labors to migrants unless you have an extremely diverse industry.
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Igfig

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 08:58:21 pm »

Good question.  In my own experience, when your fort is small it's pretty hard to miss a new migration wave. When it's large, most things work pretty well on their own, to the point that you can afford to go off and do something else for a bit while you play, and an unexpected pause loses you more time than not bothering to micromanage your new dwarves.

...Which, now that I think about it, is a pretty bad reason. Removing that part.

Tapeworm

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 11:04:41 pm »

I'm not sure of the need to raise the growth rates of non-leadership combat skills. Leadership skills are pretty hard to raise, so I can understand emphasizing their importance; combat skills, however, are already easy to train up by bringing one or two decently skilled dwarfs on embark or having your recruits beat up wild animals. Doubling the growth rates may make it too fast and easy to replace veteran dwarves if you train smartly.

Pause + recenter on civvie deaths might make it pretty simple to find vampires, too (unless it only recenters when the body is discovered).

Other than that, I love all of your changes; they're things which should go into the base game, in fact.
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Igfig

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 01:56:10 am »

I think if combat skills trained at the correct rates right now, danger rooms wouldn't be such a common sight.  It is possible that double speed could turn out to be too fast, though; the only way to know for sure is for you folks to test it.  It's been working well in my home game so far, but I'm only in year 2 at the moment.

Pause and recenter on civilian deaths only happens when the death in question is observed. If a dwarf just goes missing, you'll get a message after a week as usual, with no pause or zoom.

And yup,
things which should go into the base game
are really the whole point of this mod.

Ferrus

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 05:24:37 am »

I'm surprise nobody had the idea earlier. Very nice mod, I'm trying it out right now.
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Meph

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2012, 04:39:56 pm »

I had this idea, but it happened to grow a bit. ;)

Just downloaded it and will have a look at your solutions. Will be interesting to see different ways to fix the same issues. Like the feather/pearl thing :)
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::: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - A comprehensive mod pack with 25% higher FPS :::
::: Accelerated DF - The FPS boost of Masterwork with no other changes :::
::: www.unlocked-achievements.com - Follow my bike tours around the world :::
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ydaraishy

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2012, 09:37:37 pm »

I like the idea of adjusting skill rates for balance.  I just tried out the military skill rates in my mod and it improves sparring quite a bit.  I do think that marksdwarves tend to level up a bit too quickly if they're also hunters, since hunting tends to level it up fairly quickly on its own.  I might leave the CROSSBOW skill alone for that reason.

Also, some civilian skillrates might be good for rebalancing too.  Mining especially, which I think goes up too fast in vanilla.

Also also, I've noticed that with the skill rates up, military migrants tend to come with at least Proficient skill in their weapon. 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 09:48:41 pm by ydaraishy »
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Meph

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2012, 09:49:17 pm »

I would say mining, stone engraving and farming are the biggest culprits. With just 1 good farmer you can create tons of food, since the stack size of the finished plants depend on the skill.
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::: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - A comprehensive mod pack with 25% higher FPS :::
::: Accelerated DF - The FPS boost of Masterwork with no other changes :::
::: www.unlocked-achievements.com - Follow my bike tours around the world :::
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ydaraishy

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2012, 09:55:59 pm »

I would say mining, stone engraving and farming are the biggest culprits. With just 1 good farmer you can create tons of food, since the stack size of the finished plants depend on the skill.

Also, anything involving carving stone tends to go up very fast, just by the fact that stone is limitless, so I like to reduce those too.  This includes gem-cutting, since you can cut any stone as a cabochon now.
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Igfig

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2012, 11:12:00 pm »

That's a good point about the civilian skill rates. My thoughts:

Mining, engraving, and growing could definitely afford to slow way the hell down. Halving the rate should do it, I think.

Gem-cutting is annoying, since it would be perfectly fine if it only affected gems. Ideally, most stones just wouldn't be cuttable, but that's never going to happen outside of mods. I don't think you can even specify some rocks as cuttable and others as not.  As it is, it's about as bad as stonecrafting, which I guess could also afford to be slowed down some. Maybe 75% speed for those two?

Also, if we're going to slow down some civilian skills maybe there are some others in need of speeding up? Swimming and crutch-walking can get really annoying in Adventure Mode.

I'm not sure that the crossbow and archer should go back to 100%, since it's pretty easy to hunt your local creature populations into extinction with more than a couple rangers. Maybe 150%?

Finally, what do people think about applying some of these same skill changes to other races? Not the combat skills, but the civilian skills. I just think it'd be weird for, say, humans to learn mining faster than dwarves.

Meph

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Re: Modest Mod 1.0 - All the vital bugfixes, nothing else
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2012, 11:22:15 pm »

Skill learn rates for other races dont matter, since you never see them or play them.

I would add a minor natural skill or simming_innate to dwarves, to avoid stupid drowning accidents. Although this is not a big problem since the ramps.

Rest of the proposed changes sound good :)

You can also make males and females a bit more distinctive, with males being a bit more combat toned, and females having a better rate at farming/medical rates. A bit sexistic, but adds game depth
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::: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - A comprehensive mod pack with 25% higher FPS :::
::: Accelerated DF - The FPS boost of Masterwork with no other changes :::
::: www.unlocked-achievements.com - Follow my bike tours around the world :::
- Donate -
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