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Author Topic: Mitch's guide to catching and exploiting webbing Clowns [SPOILERS]|Update 2  (Read 15161 times)

Mitchewawa

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Spoilers incoming. Large images incoming.
Disclaimer: Aside from the initial catching of the webbing demon, everything else is untested at the point of creating this thread. Everything is subject to change.



Hi, I'm Mitchewawa. You may remember me from such fortresses as Deathgate, Swordthunders, and many others. Now, I'm a fan of practicality; I don't often build mega-projects unless they have a tangible use. However, I've been itching for more. 'What can I do that hasn't been done before?', thought I. Well, with the new vampires, weres and husks, no one has been turning their attention to the usual frontier; hell. Looking back, there's been some talk about the properties of webbing demons in the past; their silk is magma proof.

This is, of course, revolutionary. But during my (failed) attempt to catch one alive, I discovered another property; their webbing can stun other demons. Therefore, their webbing should, in theory, be able to catch demons.

Think about it. Caged demons! This was far too good to pass up, and with my practical skills I set out to catch a webbing demon. It took a few embarks and a few days, but I finally got it right. On with the guide.

I haven't done everything there needs to be doing at this point in time. I will be posting in updates, editing my first, second and third posts. Also, I did this using the Masterwork Mod. It isn't necessary; it actually makes it harder. You see, it adds its own demons to hell, which usually adds disparity to the amount of vanilla demons there are. This means your chances of embarking over an underworld that has webbing demons is much, much lower. I used Fortress Defence as well, but that only makes surviving long enough to take on hell harder.


Update schedule subject to change.

Done:
Update 1 - Added the how-to for catching a webbing demon.
Update 2 - How to use the webbing demon to catch other demons

To come:
Update 3 - How to set up a webbing demon silk farm for magma-proof clothes
Update 4 - Fire demon turrets
Update 5 - BONUS: I discovered a way to make your siege operators not run away at the sight of enemies! HAHAHA
Update 6 - To be determined



Prerequisites:
- You will need a ton of mechanisms, cages and a few expendable miners (I chose my legendaries). The base components for this experiment aren't that hard, but...
- You need to have a basic understanding of hell and cave-ins. I recommend beating hell before doing this, if only for the sheer triumph of it. Aah, I remember my first time...
- This takes a few in-game years, especially the bridge-linking. Have something else to occupy yourself at the same time.
- Not every map is the same, and you must be able to change the layout without compromising the whole thing. Remember, this isn't a step-by-step tutorial (okay, it is step-by-step), it's a guide.



Step one: Embark
Okay, here's mine...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not exactly ideal, but it had what I needed. I originally hoped to be able to turn a spare demon into a thrall, but alas, this place does not have mist. So I'm stuck with it. First thing is first; save and exit. You'll need to, because you'll be save scumming in a minute. Get back onto your map, use DFhack's reveal or whatever, and dig down the the adamantine spires. Then breach them.

Take note of every demon, and find one that can fly and shoots webs. This is the most important part! If you breach hell only to find that it doesn't have webbing demons, you will have wasted a lot of time.

Here's one I prepared earlier:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If it does have one, save scum and make a fortress proper. Go on, I can wait. I did mine at about population 100, 4 years after embark.


Step 2: How to catch your webbing demon:

Don't breach hell just yet! When you have a spare miners, mechanics and time, begin to construct this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First, dig z+1 and z-1. Then put (retract) bridges over the ramps. Then, link them up to one, and only one, lever. The dug out area in the middle and the constructed walls were how I got my mechanics to get to the bridges. This step takes the longest, and you haven't even seen a demon yet.

After it is done, pull the lever and test to see if each bridge opened up. Forbid all stones in that area (don't want masons getting caught now). You aren't done however, now you must create what I call a 'Safety Hatch'.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Demons can't break them from below. A forbidden hatch can block anything. This is in case something makes it past the trap; and it happened for me. Luckily, I locked the hatch in time, sent in the army and killed the demon without incident. Now, send in an expendable miner:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The demons will flood through your opened trap, try to keep an eye out for your webbing demon. I had to keep cutting the pathing using the safety hatches until the warbler demon got into my trap. It will look like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, pull the lever again! The bridges will close over the ramps, though some will break. Not all, but any that have a demon flying over the ramp. Find your demon, and assess the situation. Did the bridges lock him in? Did one next to him break? If so, then follow the following steps.

This is not necessary if both bridges in his segment closed over properly (in front and behind).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cave in behind (and/or in front) of your demon. This will separate your demon from most of the others, but its okay if he has some buddies in the same segment as him. Again, this is not necessary if both bridges in his segment closed over properly (in front and behind).

Okay, now you need to do the same thing, but only leading from his segment instead of hell. Do not breach just yet; test to see if all the bridges are working. This will be far easier this time, you don't need a trap as long.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The arrow points to my warbler demon, who was hidden behind a rock that I forgot to hide.

Once everything is ready, send in another miner.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Same process as before, but this time you need to time your lever pull properly. Your demon must be on his own this time; a buddy will just require another segment-separation.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, take a break. You earned it kiddo. Soon to come; using the webbing demon to catch other demons, and fashion some delicious silk undergarments to protect you from the summer heat!



Step three: Catching other demons in cages
This isn't particularly necessary to my main aim (dwarves clad in magmaproof silk), however, I just plain like it. It's easy, quick and has a good use later on. Want fire-demon turrets? Done. How about syndrome-spattered drop pits? Its all yours. Now, you could do this with a GCS, but fire-demons tend to scorch them through fortifcations. Same with FBs. Demons are fireproof. Also, the stage for setting up a cage from and a silk farm is the same, and you can swap between the two with ease. Here goes:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

WARNING: I changed a lot of the design; do not follow this directly. Add a raise bridge under the door to the cage traps, and fortifications to protect the raise bridge that blocks the webbing demon shooting at the cages (so your dwarfs can pick them up). I only added this image so you can see how to lead your webbing demon into the trap.

This is what the end product should look like:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is a short update, because I spent most of my time setting up the logistics for a silk industry. Coming soon.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 04:27:29 am by Mitchewawa »
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Mitchewawa

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Reserved for future updates
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Mitchewawa

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And another.
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Helgoland

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AFAIK non-webbing demons aren't immune to GCS silk either. So why not weed out the other demons with GCS-webbed cage traps, then trap the webbers in the described manner?
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

slothen

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AFAIK non-webbing demons aren't immune to GCS silk either. So why not weed out the other demons with GCS-webbed cage traps, then trap the webbers in the described manner?

this is cool.  Hush.
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Loud Whispers

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AFAIK non-webbing demons aren't immune to GCS silk either. So why not weed out the other demons with GCS-webbed cage traps, then trap the webbers in the described manner?

It's been suggested before in the FB silk clothes thread, but no one's tried it yet.

Up for it Mitch?

Nil Eyeglazed

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AFAIK non-webbing demons aren't immune to GCS silk either. So why not weed out the other demons with GCS-webbed cage traps, then trap the webbers in the described manner?

It's been suggested before in the FB silk clothes thread, but no one's tried it yet.

What, you mean like this?



Oops, umm...


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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...<P>It should be pretty fun though.

Loud Whispers

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Nice try, but they're not free!

(yet)

Nil Eyeglazed

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Nice try, but they're not free!

(yet)

Why would I free them?

I'm not sure you understand: the point to cage trapping them is to separate out the webbers (who are also webimmune) from the non-webbers, so that the group you catch doesn't just fry your bait critter to a crisp instead of making sweet, soft, evil clown silk.
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...<P>It should be pretty fun though.

Loud Whispers

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Nice try, but they're not free!

(yet)

Why would I free them?

To throw spiders at them. Or the other way around.

Nil Eyeglazed

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You "throw spiders at them" in order to get them into cage traps in the first place.  Demons cannot be cage trapped otherwise-- they have a creature flag (TRAPAVOID) that makes them immune to traps.  Thus, the use of webbing to separate the webimmune from the not.
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...<P>It should be pretty fun though.

Loud Whispers

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-snip-

AFAIK non-webbing demons aren't immune to GCS silk either. So why not weed out the other demons with GCS-webbed cage traps, then trap the webbers in the described manner?

It's been suggested before in the FB silk clothes thread, but no one's tried it yet.

Unless you just did that. In which case, congrats, here's a pig tail fiber sock

Helgoland

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!!SOCK!!s for you!
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Mitchewawa

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It's been suggested before in the FB silk clothes thread, but no one's tried it yet.

Up for it Mitch?

Yeah, that's part 3.

AFAIK non-webbing demons aren't immune to GCS silk either. So why not weed out the other demons with GCS-webbed cage traps, then trap the webbers in the described manner?

I thought of this, but I find that not every embark is blessed with a GCS, and even if you had one a GCS are not immune to getting blasted through fortifications with fire. Besides, this is a project. It doesn't have to take the easy alternative.
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Nil Eyeglazed

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I thought of this, but I find that not every embark is blessed with a GCS, and even if you had one a GCS are not immune to getting blasted through fortifications with fire. Besides, this is a project. It doesn't have to take the easy alternative.

Just in case anybody else wants to try it with webbed cages:

1) FBs are easier to catch than GCS.  You're much more likely to get a webbing FB than a GCS, because, at least for me, a new FB seems to come every six months or so.  Plus, FBs don't die of old age, which is nice (when you capture a GCS, it might already be pretty old).

2) You keep the webber separated from the bait with a fortification and bridge; you keep the bait separated from the traps with a fortification and bridge.  Bait's optional, since they're easier to replace.  It's very similar to what you have to do to get a silk farm running anyways.  You lower the bridges, lay some web on your cage traps, raise the bridges, give a path to your demons, then rinse and repeat.

There's no "easy" way to catch webbing demons.  It always requires a lot of planning.
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...<P>It should be pretty fun though.
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