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[Urist McDepravity]

I hope that we'll be able to turn the rubble into some sort of wall or...something...if there is rubble...

Yeah, thats my hopes as well. I don't mind gravel and other waste as long as it could be used to build outer walls at game start.

[thvaz]

If there is a waste material it is better that it can go somewhere where we couldn't see it and the computer didn't need to track it every step.

[daveralph1234]

One possible way I can see Toady doing it is to have 2 diffrent mining designations, mine stone block and mine passageway. Mine passageway would be significantly faster and will always return 'regular' stone, mine stone block takes longer but has a chance, depending on the skill of the miner, to return a stone block instead. It would then be changed so that all furnature has to be made from stone blocks, and 'regular' stone can only be used for constructions (think cobblestone). Due to the smashed-up-into-little-peices nature of 'regular' stone, it would need to be transported by wheelbarrow/minecart, whereas stone blocks could be either transported or hauled. Also, 'regular' stone would make movement through a tile slower (think clutter in a workshop).

I think this would be the most realistic way to handle it, seeing as I've never come across a cobblestone table, nor could I invisage one, it would have to be cut from a single block of stone.
This would also prompt things like stone quarrys later on, seeing as you would probably be more concerned with digging your fortress out quickly at the start, but then need stone to make your furnature. The extra effort in all this (transporting cobblestone and slow mining of stone blocks) would also help to make other matterial furnature more appealing (ie.wood), seeing as it is hardly used at current.

ore veins would obviously be an exception to this and would act as they do now for either designation, except the ore itself wouldn't be useable for furnature (iron-ore-cobblestone tables?).

As an extension of this system, he could also make all items on the floor cause increasing levels of clutter, although for this, DF would need to take into account the volume each item occupies, which would be a major overhaul (but is probably enevitable at some point anyway).


tl;dr: Regular stone replaced by cobblestone only useable in construtions and slows movement when on floor. Option to mine stone blocks instead but takes longer and can fail (resulting in cobblestone).

[NW_Kohaku]

"Landfill" types of walls (possibly with an included "they spill out" mechanic) where you have to fill a pit with gravel, or else literally just dumping it nebulously "off screen" were two of the main proposed ways of dealing with junk stone.

As I mentioned before where, if mining is harder, partially above-ground forts become more attractive to players, and we could wind up with a fortress that looks much like an ant hill; Players would have to put their excavated rock somewhere, so they build it as above-ground extensions of the fort.  The more soil and stone you empty out of the earth, the more you have to build your fortress up to just get rid of it.

[irdsm]

YES

I was wrong!

Dwarves will ride carts! check the devlog!

!!!!

[sambojin]

Looking at the Future of the Fortress post, it looks like we'll get some good use out of carts. If dwarves will jump aboard, then we're laughing. Roller-coasters, drive-by crossbow defences, offensive manned battering rams and theoretical space programs are possible. I wish he hadn't made the comment about there being a speed cap on them. That means we can't make circular accelerator rings running off water reactors to see what happens to dwarves that travel faster than light, or even what the exit velocity of DF is (or at least what would happen when you launch a dwarf past your highest z-level). The aerospace industry will have to be more of a "controlled crash" industry for the time being. He also mentions that putting a cart under a waterfall "might" fill it with liquid. Magma falls should be a pretty high priority if this makes it in. Collisions should be in, for battering ram purposes, unfortunate accident purposes and hopefully "accidental" liquid spillages. 100% jump/landing probability makes things like canyon and river jumps a necessary feature for any logistics route, not to mention the roller-coaster possibilities. Hopefully we can load cages with live animals or just creatures themselves in carts, just for other cliff/kitten/goblin related deaths.

I'm currently unsure about how carts will interact with things such as FB blood or syndrome effects. Would they smear it everywhere? Might make for a good way of putting down poison lines/defences down. Toady doesn't mention exactly what the carts can be made of. Wood and metal, but are there other things as well? I'm hoping that lignite is a possibility, for the moving fireball effect. Maybe with a very thin dwarf with a crossbow riding on board. Possibly en-route to pick up a few barrels of booze. Just for laughs.

There's also the chance that carts will be the next big thing in DF computer modelling. Once switches are in, between a decent lever set-up, some pressure pads set for different weight allowances, some nifty orders for stops, a bit of cross-over/jumping on your tack routes and pressure-plate/lever-linked-bridges, some fairly sophisticated circuitry should be able to be modelled. It might be a good side project to see how well it co-exists with current computing operators (the water based ones) and how much faster/broader in scope it could become. Carts should be able to carry a fair bit(?) of data with the correct weights worked out. Just working out the operators may be the trick.

Oops, my computer has had a break. Now it's gone for a beer. Now it's throwing a tantrum. Relying on dwarves to fill data-streams with the necessary weights/items may not be the most efficient way of doing simple computations. We'll see.

[blue sam3]

I'm currently unsure about how carts will interact with things such as FB blood or syndrome effects. Would they smear it everywhere? Might make for a good way of putting down poison lines/defences down. Toady doesn't mention exactly what the carts can be made of. Wood and metal, but are there other things as well? I'm hoping that lignite is a possibility, for the moving fireball effect. Maybe with a very thin dwarf with a crossbow riding on board. Possibly en-route to pick up a few barrels of booze. Just for laughs.

He has said that he's only putting wood and metal minecarts in for now, but that we can mod in minecarts made of whatever we prefer.

Minecarts are a new tool in the raws. The minecart behavior is determined by the "TRACK_CART" tool use, so you can add your own carts called whatever made of whatever. I'm sticking with wood and metal minecarts called minecarts.

[daveralph1234]

I'm currently unsure about how carts will interact with things such as FB blood or syndrome effects. Would they smear it everywhere? Might make for a good way of putting down poison lines/defences down. Toady doesn't mention exactly what the carts can be made of. Wood and metal, but are there other things as well? I'm hoping that lignite is a possibility, for the moving fireball effect. Maybe with a very thin dwarf with a crossbow riding on board. Possibly en-route to pick up a few barrels of booze. Just for laughs.

He has said that he's only putting wood and metal minecarts in for now, but that we can mod in minecarts made of whatever we prefer.

Minecarts are a new tool in the raws. The minecart behavior is determined by the "TRACK_CART" tool use, so you can add your own carts called whatever made of whatever. I'm sticking with wood and metal minecarts called minecarts.

Maybe artifact minecarts would be a possibility?

[penguinofhonor]

.

[UberNube]

Also all my minecart paths are going to have all these wicked jumps and stuff for no practical reason.

What do you mean, no practical reason? The fastest way to get something down to the magma forges is to drop it down a hole, and it just so happens that minecarts (and hopefully their passengers) should be able to survive such drops.

Now we just need to set up a shaft down the middle of the fortress where carts can be sent in via tracks at various levels and intercepted at the desired level by a retracting bridge. Have a lever room with a vampire locked in it to control all the bridges, then sending stuff to any level below its current location becomes as simple as launching the minecart and pulling the right lever for the desired stop level. Of course the bottom of the shaft should be submerged in magma for waste disposal purposes, and if a prisoner or noble should just happen to end up falling down the shaft and the vampire just happened to forget to activate any of the bridges... then I guess that's a terribly unfortunate accident.

For getting the carts back up, for now at least we are stuck with standard tracks on a large spiral ramp or something.

[NW_Kohaku]

How will one-way tracks work? Say I have a mine and I want to have a cart filled by it that rolls down to my forges. Could I get dwarves to automatically carry a new cart to the top of the rail?

Also all my minecart paths are going to have all these wicked jumps and stuff for no practical reason.

Make an oval track.  The trip back up will either have a dwarf pushing the cart all the way back up to the top for another fun trip back down, or you can have an automated "cart lift" back to the top of the mountain using mechanisms and powered gears.

[Deimos56]

Dwarves will ride carts! check the devlog!

I'm willing to bet that within a month of the minecart release, someone will have set up a system to launch their military at sieges by shooting minecarts full of angry dwarves out of a giant statue's eye sockets.

[Willfor]

Don't laugh. My Samurai Pizza Dwarves will ride into battle on wings of Featherwood.

[NW_Kohaku]

Dwarves will ride carts! check the devlog!

I'm willing to bet that within a month of the minecart release, someone will have set up a system to launch their military at sieges by shooting minecarts full of angry dwarves out of a giant statue's eye sockets.

I presume you mean "a month to complete the giant statue", because I don't doubt that it will be a matter of a couple of hours before dwarven "charioteers" in minecarts are dispatching goblin ambushes.

[Deimos56]

Dwarves will ride carts! check the devlog!

I'm willing to bet that within a month of the minecart release, someone will have set up a system to launch their military at sieges by shooting minecarts full of angry dwarves out of a giant statue's eye sockets.

I presume you mean "a month to complete the giant statue", because I don't doubt that it will be a matter of a couple of hours before dwarven "charioteers" in minecarts are dispatching goblin ambushes.

To be fair, I said "within" a month.