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Author Topic: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths  (Read 26533 times)

ASCIt

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Re: (Applications) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2012, 05:26:35 pm »

PTWAW
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KoboldWarmonger

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Re: (Applications) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2012, 05:01:05 am »

For a second I was worried I was overthinking this and then I was like oh wait we're doing ‼science‼.

To avoid stepping on each other's toes over time, I think we should reserve a large portion of every layer (perhaps even a quarter or half of the embark) guaranteed to be uncarved across z-levels, and when you need to make a pump stack or railevator you do your best to be frugal with your use of that space.
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Mitchewawa

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Re: (Applications) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2012, 05:58:08 am »

I think you might want to catalogue some ideas pre-emptively.

I'm currently thinking of flash rounds.  Each turn is 1 day long, and 1 year of dwarf.  The intent here is to go quick, do dwarf, and get science done so we can report findings in a timely manner.

This might not give people enough time to set up. PTW.
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Eric Blank

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Re: (Applications) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2012, 08:31:39 am »

I'm currently thinking of flash rounds.  Each turn is 1 day long, and 1 year of dwarf.  The intent here is to go quick, do dwarf, and get science done so we can report findings in a timely manner.

This might not give people enough time to set up. PTW.

Already notified of such.

But I didn't see a final agreement on a timeframe either. 7 days maximum should be doable for most of us, and we can obviously upload the save at any point in between.
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Girlinhat

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2012, 10:02:11 am »

Still taking applications.

But, let's start scheming.  What all do we want to test out?  I've updated OP slightly, so start suggesting your things.

Trif

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2012, 01:45:28 pm »

What happens when items are dropped on top of minecarts?
Can items in minecarts be stolen by Kobolds?
What happens when a flying minecart hits a solid wall, a construction or an item? What happens when it lands on a creature?
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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2012, 03:31:27 pm »

Any chance of me joining?
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Eric Blank

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2012, 03:37:24 pm »

What happens when a minecart leaves the track and simply falls a few z-levels without a head-on collision?
Can they travel along diagonals?

But the most important question is how can they be effectively weaponized, and how much effort would have to go into doing such relative to other available choices for defense?

I would consider it important to test how readily a minecart will transfer heat to it's contents, such as bathing it in magma for a brief period. See if it will set wooden cages on fire, and then move away from the magma, thus perhaps letting the contents of said cages exit the minecart in drop-pod fashion when the cage finishes burning (or do creatures contained within burning cages simply catch on fire/die when it burns away? I don't remember ever reading about the subject...) Of course we'd need to know if the creature would be immediately crushed by the cart...

Can a platinum minecart loaded with platinum bars damage a bronze colossus?
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Sphalerite

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2012, 04:49:08 pm »

I wish to determine what if any use mine carts have for computation.  Firstly, I will attempt to determine if it is possible to launch a cart onto a track with a pressure-plate triggered signal.  If toady does not put in a feature permitting a mine cart stop to launch a mine cart on trigger, this may require some scheme involving a mine cart perched on a ramp over a triggered door or floor hatch.

I will attempt to determine the exact requirements needed to have a cart going around a track at a constant speed.  This will require determining the ratio required between powered rollers and unpowered track to keep a cart going without speeding up enough to fly off the track or slowing down and coming to a stop.

I also wish to determine if a mine cart can be selectively pushed onto a side track by using powered rollers on a crossing to change the direction in which a mine cart is moving.

If I succeed in my initial experiments, I will attempt to develop a simple delay-line memory using mine carts traveling around a large loop.
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Mr Frog

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2012, 06:31:27 pm »

How much speed is lost, if any, when a minecart hits an object?

Is it possible to build a cart directly on top of rollers, thus allowing one to start it remotely by linking it to a lever-operated gear assembly?

Is it possible to immerse a magma-safe cart in magma, on magma-safe rollers, linked to a magma-safe gear assembly, thus allowing one to fling a superheated iron box at invaders at superluminal speeds with the flick of a switch?

Minecart danger rooms -- what is the minimum speed that a cart is considered a "dangerous" projectile? By carefully controlling the velocity of the carts, it may be possible to get them to move fast enough for dwarves to dodge them (thus presumably training their Dodge skill) while still not hitting hard enough to cause more than minor injuries.

EDIT: Dwarven airmail -- assuming minecarts are indestructible, it should be possible to rev a minecart up a spiral ramp to the surface, then fling it off a jump into a wall above a pit some distance away, after which it drops down into the fortress itself. Pretty much a Stupid Dwarf Trick at best, but there may be some instances where you need to deliver supplies without having a ground path between the two points.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 06:42:47 pm by Mr Frog »
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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2012, 06:33:12 pm »

As far as I know, minecart computations will run into significant problems.  Namely, that there's three items.  Pressure plates, stops, and rollers.  None of these can overlap each other, you may have one on a tile.  This means that you can push a cart onto a pressure plate to function as a latch, but you have no way to get it off the plate after that.

Sphalerite

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2012, 06:37:34 pm »

Although if I understand Toady's posts, you could get a cart off a pressure plate by hitting it with another cart, but that will leave the second cart stuck on the pressure plate.  I suspect that any system involving computation with mine carts will need to be dynamic, with carts constantly circling around the system and not coming to rest on pressure plates.   State changes will occur by shunting carts onto different tracks rather than by stopping them on pressure plates.  Assuming it's possible to shunt them onto different tracks somehow.  I intend to try a few experiments along these lines.
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Mr Frog

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2012, 06:45:38 pm »

You could have a roller behind the pressure plate. After the second cart rams the first cart off the plate, the roller then pushes the second cart onto it. By linking the roller to a gear assembly, you could decide when to reset the switch.
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Girlinhat

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2012, 09:32:39 pm »

You could make a 3 long section, where the cart bounces between two rollers with a plate in the middle.  Due to the timing, it would probably keep the plate depressed as it moves quickly back and forth.  A bridge/door/creative gearbox could be used to let the cart escape the loop and "disengage the hatch".

Mr Frog

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2012, 10:01:56 pm »

You could make a 3 long section, where the cart bounces between two rollers with a plate in the middle.  Due to the timing, it would probably keep the plate depressed as it moves quickly back and forth.  A bridge/door/creative gearbox could be used to let the cart escape the loop and "disengage the hatch".

I don't think that the cart will move forever, though. It'd presumably be sent back from each roller at the same speed that it hit the roller at (I'm comparing this to gravitational acceleration, and how (I think) an object launched upwards from height x at velocity s in a vacuum will have accelerated to a speed of -s by the time it comes back down to its original height x). Since it'll slow down a bit from friction every time it goes over the pressure plate, it might end up stalling after too many repetitions.

EDIT: Sphalerite, are you sure that a moving cart A that hits a stationary cart B will be left in the same spot that B was? From what I understand about kinematics, a perfect transmission of kinetic energy -- which I'm assuming is what's used -- would leave A at the exact point that it was when it struck B -- i.e. immediately behind where B was.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 10:10:14 pm by Mr Frog »
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