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Author Topic: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths  (Read 27418 times)

Niyazov

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2012, 07:51:53 am »

I'd like to join so that I can test the properties and limits of wheelbarrows.
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Girlinhat

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2012, 09:23:29 am »

I don't think that the cart will move forever, though.
You're basing that on real world physics, not on DF physics.  And even in the case of real world physics, you're not comparing it correctly.  I'm not sending the cart up one hill and back again.  What I'm doing is sending it between two actively powered boosters.  Boosters are called rollers.
Code: [Select]
>=^<> Roller pushing east
= Bridge
^ Plate
< Roller pushing west

Rollers are powered by mechanical power and axles and gears.  That means water coming in from the river is powering the rollers.  The cart hits one roller, and is propelled forward over the bridge and plate to hit the other roller, where it's stopped and sent the other way.  Each "push" is a unique action and not influenced by the push before it.  Every push will have the maximum energy that a single roller can impart.

When you want to disengage the latch, you pull the lever on the bridge, which causes the cart to fall out of the system and allows the plate to reset.

If the cart moves back and forth quicker than 100 ticks, then the plate stays down.  In other words, it has 100 ticks to hit one roller and get pushed in the other direction.  If it takes shorter time, then it "resets" the plate's timer and keeps it depressed.  It it takes longer time, then it allows the plate to trigger and you end up with a repeater.

HorridOwn4ge

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2012, 09:43:04 am »

I want to join too, I want to eliminate a siege using nothing but minecarts.
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Quote from: SmileyMan
I got fed up with my fortress, so I decided to kill everyone (abandon is for elves) with a cave-in.

OK, cave-ins were always pretty deadly, but with the new falling object damage they are downright brutal.  As far as I can make out from the logs, many people were killed by the flying bodies of other victims.  One baby's corpse ricocheted off three other people, two walls and the floor.

Mr Frog

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2012, 12:01:02 pm »

@Girlinhat:

But the way I understood it, a roller basically works the same way as a ramp -- i.e. it accelerates a minecart on top of it in a specific direction. I suppose this needs to be tested: Do rollers hard-set the speed of a cart or do they simply accelerate carts on top of them? unless Toady already said something about this and I'm looking even stupider than usual, in which case a link would be appreciated.
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Awessum Possum

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2012, 12:07:01 pm »

Oh, this should be good. Let the games BEGIN!
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Talvieno

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2012, 12:59:54 pm »

@Girlinhat:

But the way I understood it, a roller basically works the same way as a ramp -- i.e. it accelerates a minecart on top of it in a specific direction. I suppose this needs to be tested: Do rollers hard-set the speed of a cart or do they simply accelerate carts on top of them? unless Toady already said something about this and I'm looking even stupider than usual, in which case a link would be appreciated.
In his Future of the Fortress post, he stated that tracks weren't uni-directional. This might imply the necessity of rollers being two-way, as otherwise all tracks (except for dwarf-pushed ones) would be basically one-way.
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Conrad

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2012, 01:01:26 pm »

Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy....

There's going to be a lot of fun with this release. I've already started thinking of ways to automate a fortress... This will make entirely new ways to use burrows. Different sections of the fort (smithing, farming, refuse + butchery, military barracks and outside, etc) spread all over the map connected only by the mine carts to "the hub", a central stockpile. I've already started thinking about what sorts of dwarven logic gates can be used for the most efficient hauling systems...

Posting to follow and to contribute devilish ideas!
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Girlinhat

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2012, 01:28:14 pm »

Rollers are confirmed to be directional, the same way that pumps can be issued a direction.  So, it's entirely conceivable to have a cart bouncing between rollers.  I don't even see how this is an issue for us to discuss.  Bouncing carts will be the easiest thing we can do.  Easier than setting up long routes and stops and stockpiles, at least.

Mr Frog

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2012, 03:11:03 pm »

I'm not talking about whether they're directional -- that's obvious. I'm talking about whether a roller, with a cart on top of it, will automatically set the cart's velocity to (X, Y) OR whether it will modify the cart's velocity by (X, Y).

To put it in pseudocode, is it:

if (Cart.IsOnTopOfRoller()){
     Cart.velX = Roller.velX;
     Cart.velY = Roller.velY;
}

or is it

if (Cart.IsOnTopOfRoller()){
     Cart.velX += Roller.accelX;
     Cart.velY += Roller.accelY;
}
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Girlinhat

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2012, 08:02:26 pm »

I'd have to guess that it adds momentum, Toady doesn't seem like the sort to add insta-physics like that.  But, either way, why would it matter if it sets or adds impulse?

Mr Frog

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2012, 08:58:10 pm »

If it works by accelerating the cart, then the cart might end up stalling because it'll be sent back from each roller at the same speed it hit the roller at, lose a bit of speed going over the pressure plate, hit the other roller at the reduced speed, get sent back at that reduced speed, lose a little more speed going over the plate, and so on until the cart doesn't have enough speed to make it to the other roller.

The tile-based spatial coordinates may throw a bit of a monkey wrench into this, though.
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KoboldWarmonger

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2012, 10:06:19 pm »

I'd like to see if there is a maximum speed for minecarts given infinite power, and if odd things start to happen when you approach that maximum speed, with the obvious ultimate goal of sending caged animals backwards in time.

Of course, I look forward to the damage tests. What happens to a chained goblin when you hit it as fast as you possibly can? Gibbing? Can we hit fire imps or other veryhot-blooded animals and kill people with the shower of parts?
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Mr Frog

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2012, 10:23:10 pm »

Maximum speed yes, relativistic time-twisting shenanigans presumably no.

Quote from: Toady One
[Asked about whether carts have a maximum speed when going down ramps]
If I remember, they hit a terminal velocity going down, but it's quite fast.

Quote from: DevLog
There are powered "rollers" placed in strips that increase the speed of minecarts in a given direction, up to a point (more than enough to get them up a ramp, anyway).
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tahujdt

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2012, 11:06:57 pm »

Toady just posted that haulers can jump onto the back of carts. I guess they will load the bars onto the cart, push it, and ride it down to the magma forges.


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Eric Blank

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Re: (Planning) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2012, 11:25:56 pm »

Excellent! We can place the endpoint of the freight lines in the open fields outside the fortress, with our military being the haulers manning said carts. As soon as they reach their destination, activate 'em!
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