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Author Topic: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths  (Read 26714 times)

therealmarauder

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #165 on: June 11, 2012, 11:47:31 am »

Maybe one of the rollers wasn't set to the right speed, or something like that?

I like the idea of you trying the back-and-forth active denial. I think, though, that a truly powerful active denial system would just have a stack of minecarts which would be held in a row and eventually dropped onto a long fall. The carts can get going at incredible speeds from a straight drop down a row of ramps, and that should be enough for murder. In addition, rollers don't cost that much more for power transfer, so keeping power along the entirety of the track might not be such a bad idea; a victim would stop a cart and force a (potentially dwarvenly hazardous) reset.



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Sphalerite

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #166 on: June 11, 2012, 02:06:25 pm »

Please remove my name from the list of turns for now.  I haven't had time to even update my own community fort lately, and won't have time to do any work on this.
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darkrider2

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #167 on: June 13, 2012, 10:20:45 pm »

Oh man, I was planning on starting a cart fortress succession, looks like someone beat me to it... beat me to it quite a while ago.

Anyway, I totally want a turn at this. :D
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Naryar

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #168 on: June 15, 2012, 07:23:11 am »

Any news ? Can't wait to see how this will work.

Also I would like to apply for a second turn. And I won't make it wait for ten days this time  :-X

tahujdt

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #169 on: June 17, 2012, 11:43:11 am »

Sorry. You can skip me.
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Trif

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #170 on: June 17, 2012, 01:08:35 pm »

It's my birthday, and I get a fortress! Hooray!

I'll play it, if nobody objects.

And, by the way, can anyone recommend a screenshot program? I'm getting tired of the print-paste.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 01:10:27 pm by Trif »
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Trif

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #171 on: June 19, 2012, 10:33:59 am »

Seasonal Report 1 - Autumn

Events

Three dwarfs were injured, so I built a hospital and a well at z-1.


Now they're up and crawling again.

Migrants arrived, pushing our total population to 41.



I started fixing the minecart active denial system. It seems like there are far too many rollers. I put tracks under the southwestern roller section and the minecarts rolled for one and a half laps. It should be fun once all of them are fixed.

The dwarven caravan arrived. I used the opportunity to get rid of all the elven crap and the old clothes. A flock of giant keas used the opportunity to grab the minecarts. The leopard from the elves proved to be useful. One kea plummeted into the farm plot because a caravan guard chopped its guts. Sadly, it's not butcherable.

Progress


Tracks spiral into the sky...

Findings

Wagons can't cross tracks.
Minecarts get kill lists.
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I wonder if the game has become odd.

Naryar

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #172 on: June 19, 2012, 01:55:38 pm »

Number of rollers isn't a problem, all rollers are powered correctly. The problem is... well you know it.

Besides, more rollers => more speed => more FUN for invaders.

Also one of these dwarves cannot be saved. Spinal injury.

Also, you are building a dwarven rollercoaster or something ?

Trif

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #173 on: June 20, 2012, 10:54:24 am »

Seasonal Report 2 - Winter

Events

A mechanic got a secretive mood and produced this:




I focused on completing Naryar's active denial system. The outpost liaison was almost the first to try it out, but she demonstrated impressive dodging skills.
I was about to shut if off to retrieve a stray minecart when a group of gray langurs showed up (small monkeys that can be found in forests and the streets of towns and in front of minecarts).



Four of them got smashed, but they didn't die or retreat. Instead they picked fights with random civilians and animals. Some of them even tried to mess with the war leopard, at least that was funny.
Even though none of the monkeys managed serious injuries, they caused lots of job cancellations, so I turned the minecart system back on and activated the hunting labor on a few dwarfs. Langurs are small enough to get propelled by bolts. Those who didn't die from being shot landed unconscious on the tracks.

A few slug men also contributed to the carnage.


The minecart active denial system is a success!

Not much else happened. A baby was born, population: 42.


Here's an overview of z-level 0 at the end of year 6.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Progress


z-level +20


z-level +21

Ready for Science!

Findings

The minecarts didn't stop after hitting the monkeys or the slug men. The victims flew a bit through the air and the minecarts usually overtook them. The carts seemed to become slower, anyways, some of them stopped later. I'm not entirely sure if that's because of the collisions or because of the setup, but the former seems more likely. So, to summarize, monkeys aren't perfectly elastic.

Nobody managed to dodge a minecart yet - the liaison got a very lucky moment, but she didn't actually have to dodge anything. The high dodge chance that Toady mentioned seems to apply mainly to frontal collisions, the active denial system hits from the side. Or the carts are just too fast to be dodged.

Minecarts - like hammers - are great for incapacitating enemies, but rarely kill. One gray langur survived five collisions (but the sixth got it).


Also one of these dwarves cannot be saved. Spinal injury.
Well, at least he doesn't have to be fed anymore.
Also, you are building a dwarven rollercoaster or something ?
Hmm, that's not bad either. Maybe one of my successors wants to modify my project.
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I wonder if the game has become odd.

Trif

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #174 on: June 27, 2012, 10:46:42 am »

Seasonal Report 3 - Spring

Events

I started a marksdwarf squad, maybe they'll be good minecart riders. They don't really like to train except if they're off-duty, though.

And because we didn't have enough sharp things for a proper minecart shotgun, I started a sand collection area and made some serrated glass disks.



A mason walked on the tracks without any apparent reason. She and her two babies didn't take the collision well.


Now one baby is dead, the other one is lying in the meeting area with a broken skull, and the mother is in hospital and ecstatic.

The elves came along and brought some neat stuff.

I used Girlinhat's auto-trader to haggle the price down.


And while I was distracted with the trading, the goblins attacked.

And, of course, the minecart active denial system was turned off to let the elves pass.

I immediately ordered the M.A.D.S.-lever to be pulled and removed the burrow on z-level 0 to get everybody underground.
The first part worked very well.

The second, not so much.

Everybody who was outside fled southwards over the tracks. The minecarts got one goblin, several animals and two dwarfs.
Thankfully, the four barely trained marksdwarfs saved the day. The swordgoblin got hit by a bolt, lost his scimitar and passed out while a dog tried to eat his helm. Two more bowgoblins got hit by minecarts, and the marksdwarfs finished them off.
The rest of the ambushers had enough for now and left.

Spoiler: Aftermath (click to show/hide)
Three dead goblins, four dead animals, three more dwarfs in hospital. This is an extremely lucky outcome, and I can't understand how almost all of the dwarfs were able to avoid getting hit by minecarts.

All in all, the minecart active denial system turned out to be more effective against intelligent opponents than I thought.


And some more migrants arrived. I forgot that the population cap isn't a raw change and didn't set it to 40. Oh well, the liaison returns next autumn.

Progress

My project is completed! It's a 21z-level high tower built out of tracks and track ramps.
Getting minecarts in a high position should be useful for later; I for one placed a platform and rollers on z20 and examined at the parabolic flight paths of minecarts.

Spoiler: Setup (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Results (click to show/hide)

Findings:

Minecarts on the M.A.D.S. can be stopped after colliding with multiple large creatures. One minecart came to a halt after it hit a horse and a reindeer calf.

Goblins dodge better than monkeys. One bowgoblin jumped out of the way of a minecart that approached him frontally.

The trajectories seem realistic. I'll try it with 20 rollers next.
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Quote from: Toady One
I wonder if the game has become odd.

Gilihad

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #175 on: June 28, 2012, 03:24:10 am »

That's some good !!SCIENCE!! Trif.
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WellBredMutt

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #176 on: June 29, 2012, 10:47:24 am »

Hey, you guys seem to be dropping technomancers left and right. Any chance you would be willing to take on a late arrival? I've never tried a succession game before, but I can't resist the idea of using flying minecarts as marksdwarf gunner platforms. Actually Trif, what if you developed a secure way to load your shiny new marksdwarves into the M.A.D.S? It would be an opportunity to find out if accuracy is affected by movement speed, a question that has never been seriously relevant in all of dwarven history.
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Trif

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #177 on: June 29, 2012, 02:08:56 pm »

Thanks for the encouragement!

I think getting the marksdwarfs into the minecarts shouldn't be very difficult - all we need is an additional burrow on top of the stops and the marksdwarfs assigned to it. I would love to try it out, but a) I don't have any good targets right now, and b) to get them out again, you have to stop the whole M.A.D.S. - and I don't know if they will survive getting smashed into a wall. Plus, they aren't very accurate right now on their own feet, so if I did it, we would have to take the experiment with a grain of salt.

Anyway, if a siege shows up, I'll try it, and if not, my successor can do whatever.
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I wonder if the game has become odd.

DrKillPatient

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #178 on: June 29, 2012, 11:01:41 pm »

Here are some questions I've thought of while reading this thread (an excellent read indeed!). Perhaps they're worth investigating:
- Can a melee-weapon-armed dwarf hit enemies while riding past them in a minecart?
- Does the additional momentum from the minecart will supplement the force of the swing?
- Can enemies strike at a dwarf in a minecart, and if so, do they suffer any penalty for doing so?
- If a weapon is embedded in a minecart-riding dwarf, will it be yanked out of the wielder's hands and carried along? If not, will it be pulled out of the dwarf by the advance of the minecart, subjecting him to additional blood loss?


Some more detailed ideas, if the above concepts work:

I envision a three-tile-wide tunnel with a track on either side (leaving a 1-tile-wide walkable path down the middle), down each of which are sent dwarves in minecarts (a squad per track?) in rapid succession. The dwarves ride past enemies in the tunnel and brutalize them as necessary. Since the dwarves come from inside the fortress and ride the minecarts toward the entrance of the tunnel towards (and past) the oncoming foes, they will be in an excellent position to stop anyone that attempts to flee.

Another, somewhat more ridiculous, idea: Drop an enemy into a pit, then fire four minecarts at them simultaneously, one each from N/S/E/W (floodgates would block those openings in the sides of the pit until they are fired). Place a silver-warhammer-wielding hammerdwarf in each minecart. A trash compactor, if you will.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 11:42:31 pm by DrKillPatient »
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Trif

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Re: (Active) Kelnimar - Metalpaths
« Reply #179 on: July 01, 2012, 11:20:48 am »

Seasonal Report 4 - Summer

Events

Two elven traders just didn't want to die. I had to make a modification to the Auto-Trader to get rid of them.

I dumped a few glass disks on the hatch covers and pulled the lever. One elf dodged, the other one got sliced into bits.
The remaining elf survived way too many minecart collisions, but died after a month or so by skidding on his head.

The dwarfs were very suicidal in this season, too. They either tried to clean up a blood-covered underground track while another dwarf pushed the minecart, or wandered on the tracks for no reason. There were quite a few additions to the hospital and the graveyard. Unfortunately, one of the marksdwarfs died, too.
All this dying produced some unhappy thoughts, and a lot of dwarfs were close to tantruming. I still got some more migrants, though.

I did my last experiments, and in the process of shooting the last minecart, the dwarf who recovered the previous minecart got hit. Another dwarf went to recover the cart, and they both uncovered an ambush.


The goblins went after the wounded glassmaker, who thankfully had no friends. This allowed the miner, one of the most popular dwarfs, to escape.


The active denial system was loaded, the dwarfs pulled the lever and were ordered to put three more minecarts on the tracks. The goblins were too close to try out the minecart squad, and just one death of a popular civilian might have been the end of the fortress. Instead, I placed the marksdwarfs on top of the windmill platforms.

The minecarts worked as intended.


Two marksdwarfs on the windmill level took care of the axegoblin and three crossbowgoblins were injured by minecarts, the rest fled to the north. One marksdwarf got a bolt in the leg and passed out. The third marksdwarf was late to the party and didn't get in position to fire, but tried to bash the unconscious axegoblin in the head - there might be some relation to the fact that I couldn't get him to train.
Honorable mention goes to a stray giant mantis, who first strangled the axegoblin to death, and then tore two marksgoblins limb from limb.


The last marksgoblin was problematic because he landed on the tracks, and mantis and marksdwarf tried to engage him in melee combat. The giant mantis retreated after a few of its legs got fractured, the marksdwarf continued pushing the crossbowgoblin in the head even with a broken upper spine. Luckily, he was friendless, too.
At this point, I stopped the M.A.D.S. and let the last capable marksdwarf, the militia captain, take care of the problem. He emptied his quiver into the goblin, and bashed it in the head to no avail.
Just in time, the previously injured marksdwarf emerged from the hospital, bearing a leg cast, a crutch and a quiver filled with bolts. That was the end of the ambush.
Results: two dead dwarfs, four dead goblins. The giant mantis is fully healed.

End stats:


Progress

I finished my minecart trajectory experiments by extending the rollers to a length of 20 tiles.


Surprisingly, the resulting trajectories were identical with the previous ones using 10 rollers.
Conclusion: Using more than ten consecutive rollers is a waste of energy.

That's it for me, here is the save.

Advice for my successor

Don't forget to set the population cap! Don't make my mistake.
The dwarfs are still pretty unhappy. I'm especially concerned about the mayor - she hates her rooms and she hates dwarfs complaining about their dead friends. I ordered a few platinum bars to be made, maybe some platinum furniture will cheer her up.
Putting a wall at the end of the roller platform could transform it into a high altitude shotgun - that might be a more practical application than examining flight paths.
Only two marksdwarfs are left, reinforcements might be a good idea.
And if you ignore all of this, that's fine, too.

I would like to close with an overview of the main level.
Spoiler: z-level 0 (click to show/hide)

I had fun, and it was a very carthartic experience.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 11:29:44 am by Trif »
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I wonder if the game has become odd.
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