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Author Topic: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever  (Read 68307 times)

Niyazov

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #180 on: April 20, 2012, 04:22:13 pm »

Then again shes a vegetarian and Im not.

I like to remind vegetarians that if we all went vegetarian that increased crop lands would result in the deaths of millions more animals. Hundreds of mice die for each acre of grain produced. But that never seems to matter...

Most people are amazed and confused when I talk about the game.

I hate to derail, but if everyone went vegetarian it would decrease the amount of land needed for crops. The majority of cultivated land is used to produce animal fodder, and around 40% of all edible grain grown worldwide is fed to animals. (15-year-old- number but probably still accurate).

Likewise if people substituted squid and lower-on-the-food-chain marine fish like pollock, hake, and anchovy for cultivated salmon and other predatory fish, it would counterintuitively increase world fishery stocks by reducing the demand for the fishmeal used in aquaculture.

This is not true in Dwarf Fortress since many species have no need to eat; if animals started needing appropriate food proportional to their body sizes we would suddenly see people making more calculated decisions about embarking with 10 war dogs or keeping dozens of giant war lions around due to their colossal caloric requirements. We have already seen this happen with grazers, although part of that is due to the lack of any ability to gather silage. Fortunately, the world of dwarf fortress also has an abundant albeit non-renewable source of low-grade meat in the form of forbidden beasts, titans, and clowns, all of which presumably have no need to eat due to their magical origins.
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Bilanthri

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #181 on: April 21, 2012, 04:11:31 pm »

I recently began to describe DF to a new girlfriend who seemed surprisingly interested in the premise. She was a bit put off by some of the topics (for obvious reasons) and suggested that we refer to the dwarves as "bunnies" since that would be cuter.

So, I continued to describe the activities of my "bunnies" which led to the topic of combat and the tendency for body parts to go flying. Suddenly, she decided that they were clearly demon bunnies a la Monty Python & the Holy Grail.

This, of course, led to the topic of HFS, to which she responded by declaring the denizens of that foul realm to be juggalos. I honestly couldn't think of anything more detestable. For ever after, HFS will be known as the Dark Carnival, home to the Great Milenko and his Faygo-guzzling, misanthropic horde.

P.S. I will now have to take every opportunity to breach said realm in order to obliterate the juggalo menace.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #182 on: April 21, 2012, 04:38:03 pm »

I hate to derail, but if everyone went vegetarian it would decrease the amount of land needed for crops. The majority of cultivated land is used to produce animal fodder, and around 40% of all edible grain grown worldwide is fed to animals. (15-year-old- number but probably still accurate).

Likewise if people substituted squid and lower-on-the-food-chain marine fish like pollock, hake, and anchovy for cultivated salmon and other predatory fish, it would counterintuitively increase world fishery stocks by reducing the demand for the fishmeal used in aquaculture.

This is not true in Dwarf Fortress since many species have no need to eat; if animals started needing appropriate food proportional to their body sizes we would suddenly see people making more calculated decisions about embarking with 10 war dogs or keeping dozens of giant war lions around due to their colossal caloric requirements. We have already seen this happen with grazers, although part of that is due to the lack of any ability to gather silage. Fortunately, the world of dwarf fortress also has an abundant albeit non-renewable source of low-grade meat in the form of forbidden beasts, titans, and clowns, all of which presumably have no need to eat due to their magical origins.

Actually, we'd be able to produce food for a far more significant number of humans if we could simply switch to algaculture (the growing of seaweeds and kelp for food or biofuel) as well as cultivating specific types of genetically engineered fungus like Quorn as a micoprotein source. 

Except, too bad that would be filed under "never gonna happen" even if it weren't for the fact that it would require us to stop polluting the oceans with things like several billion barrels of crude oil from nigh-constant oil rig spills and explosions that are creating giant "Dead Zones" where no carbon-based life can survive, and sulfur-based microbes have taken over. 

Anyway, Toady was talking about adding silage to the game at the "cart stops" to feed cart-pulling animals, so we should be able to get silage into the game soon.  It just means that we'd need to expand our farms to be capable of feeding the creatures we are using, which is going to be fine enough for now.

Eventually, it may become more serious when the Farming Updates come through, and we have to work harder to keep farms running, although possibly manure could come from animals, as well. 
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Bilanthri

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #183 on: April 21, 2012, 05:10:53 pm »

Damn these ethical derails!

How can you think about food at a time like this? There are juggalos down there!
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runlvlzero

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #184 on: April 21, 2012, 05:45:25 pm »

I hate to derail, but if everyone went vegetarian it would decrease the amount of land needed for crops. The majority of cultivated land is used to produce animal fodder, and around 40% of all edible grain grown worldwide is fed to animals. (15-year-old- number but probably still accurate).

Likewise if people substituted squid and lower-on-the-food-chain marine fish like pollock, hake, and anchovy for cultivated salmon and other predatory fish, it would counterintuitively increase world fishery stocks by reducing the demand for the fishmeal used in aquaculture.

This is not true in Dwarf Fortress since many species have no need to eat; if animals started needing appropriate food proportional to their body sizes we would suddenly see people making more calculated decisions about embarking with 10 war dogs or keeping dozens of giant war lions around due to their colossal caloric requirements. We have already seen this happen with grazers, although part of that is due to the lack of any ability to gather silage. Fortunately, the world of dwarf fortress also has an abundant albeit non-renewable source of low-grade meat in the form of forbidden beasts, titans, and clowns, all of which presumably have no need to eat due to their magical origins.

Actually, we'd be able to produce food for a far more significant number of humans if we could simply switch to algaculture (the growing of seaweeds and kelp for food or biofuel) as well as cultivating specific types of genetically engineered fungus like Quorn as a micoprotein source. 

Except, too bad that would be filed under "never gonna happen" even if it weren't for the fact that it would require us to stop polluting the oceans with things like several billion barrels of crude oil from nigh-constant oil rig spills and explosions that are creating giant "Dead Zones" where no carbon-based life can survive, and sulfur-based microbes have taken over. 

Anyway, Toady was talking about adding silage to the game at the "cart stops" to feed cart-pulling animals, so we should be able to get silage into the game soon.  It just means that we'd need to expand our farms to be capable of feeding the creatures we are using, which is going to be fine enough for now.

Eventually, it may become more serious when the Farming Updates come through, and we have to work harder to keep farms running, although possibly manure could come from animals, as well.

I just went and read the wiki on Quorn, Its a great idea, but it lakes nutritional value by itself, its an ok thing to add to your diet (maybe if its not made by a crappy corp and you have a variety of sources to choose from), but plain Quorn that's not manipulated and grown in vitamins is not sustaining all by itself (just like rabbit meat is not enough nutritionally by itself). It is a bad dietary replacement (by it self). If they made different strains and different companies sold competing products with different nutritional levels, it would be ok maybe. I still hesitate to let small groups of individuals dictate my dietary intake of vitamins and other nutrients.

Kelps is nice (nearly perfect), nature designed that, and designed it very well. So is Spirulina and other algea's and such. Add a few more things to that list and were moving forward.

Quorn is fungal cardbored with added artificial flavoring and vitamins. What I read about it makes me think of cornsyrup from GMO corn. Not gonna keep you alive or fit. I'de also like to point out that the company that makes it even adds egg albumin to it... that's totally cheating. Might as well just get the egg albumin plain.

Yup, I prefer free-range chickens producing eggs in my back yard to the crappy shit with thin shells and sterilization by gamma radiation.

There is enough biomass on the earth to feed everyone without any agriculture at all if we all just lived in perfectly set up parks, and mega Arcologies. Look up food forests and stuff. But we have kept people in research experiments alive and healthy for a long time on algae alone. It's what we'd use if we sent people on a deep space mission. Quorn would make a great additive to give it some texture and mix in with algae based dishes. Better then soy probably lol... (btw soy is horribly inefficient if your gonna grow it for what were talking about). I am no expert though, feel free to tell me I'm stupid and I won't argue further.

I guess the real issue is once you've decided on the "food" your going to use to deliver the nutrients, were do you get the nutrients from? Is it a closed system? Is there attrition of nutrients? Who decides what nutrients to use? To solve that problem you need a heterogeneous and diverse food production system. (which Ironically is how I run my forts food production, I try not to overspecialize in any one area).
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 05:59:16 pm by runlvlzero »
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Uristocrat

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #185 on: April 21, 2012, 05:56:06 pm »

Honestly, I've never had too many problems explaining to people that you can't "win," unless they're really out of the video game loop. The concept of a "sandbox" is pretty well known.

Recently, though, I've been modding enough that my roommate's been giving me hell:

"Do you ever actually... play the game? Or just edit text?"

Given that it's an ASCII game, all gameplay reduces to editing text at some level.  Unless you use a tileset.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #186 on: April 21, 2012, 06:14:33 pm »

Given that it's an ASCII game, all gameplay reduces to editing text at some level.  Unless you use a tileset.

It's not ASCII, it's a graphical tileset that was simply made using a Code Page 437 font because Toady didn't feel like making real graphics, except for adding beards to the happy faces.  There is absolutely no difference between "ASCII" and a graphical set aside from the actual content of the bitmaps.

I recently began to describe DF to a new girlfriend who seemed surprisingly interested in the premise. She was a bit put off by some of the topics (for obvious reasons) and suggested that we refer to the dwarves as "bunnies" since that would be cuter.

So, I continued to describe the activities of my "bunnies" which led to the topic of combat and the tendency for body parts to go flying. Suddenly, she decided that they were clearly demon bunnies a la Monty Python & the Holy Grail.

This, of course, led to the topic of HFS, to which she responded by declaring the denizens of that foul realm to be juggalos. I honestly couldn't think of anything more detestable. For ever after, HFS will be known as the Dark Carnival, home to the Great Milenko and his Faygo-guzzling, misanthropic horde.

P.S. I will now have to take every opportunity to breach said realm in order to obliterate the juggalo menace.

I suddenly have a new urge to create a "Bunnies and Burrows" mod for DF.  Protect your burrow from the horrific badger horde!

I just went and read the wiki on Quorn, Its a great idea, but it lakes nutritional value by itself, its an ok thing to add to your diet (maybe if its not made by a crappy corp and you have a variety of sources to choose from), but plain Quorn that's not manipulated and grown in vitamins is not sustaining all by itself (just like rabbit meat is not enough nutritionally by itself). It is a bad dietary replacement (by it self). If they made different strains and different companies sold competing products with different nutritional levels, it would be ok maybe. I still hesitate to let small groups of individuals dictate my dietary intake of vitamins and other nutrients.

Kelps is nice (nearly perfect), nature designed that, and designed it very well. So is Spirulina and other algea's and such. Add a few more things to that list and were moving forward.

Quorn is fungal cardbored with added artificial flavoring and vitamins. What I read about it makes me think of cornsyrup from GMO corn. Not gonna keep you alive or fit. I'de also like to point out that the company that makes it even adds egg albumin to it... that's totally cheating. Might as well just get the egg albumin plain.

Yup, I prefer free-range chickens producing eggs in my back yard to the crappy shit with thin shells and sterilization by gamma radiation.

There is enough biomass on the earth to feed everyone without any agriculture at all if we all just lived in perfectly set up parks, and mega Arcologies. Look up food forests and stuff. But we have kept people in research experiments alive and healthy for a long time on algae alone. It's what we'd use if we sent people on a deep space mission. Quorn would make a great additive to give it some texture and mix in with algae based dishes. Better then soy probably lol... (btw soy is horribly inefficient if your gonna grow it for what were talking about). I am no expert though, feel free to tell me I'm stupid and I won't argue further.

I guess the real issue is once you've decided on the "food" your going to use to deliver the nutrients, were do you get the nutrients from? Is it a closed system? Is there attrition of nutrients? Who decides what nutrients to use? To solve that problem you need a heterogeneous and diverse food production system. (which Ironically is how I run my forts food production, I try not to overspecialize in any one area).

Not a fan of mycoprotiens, are we? :P

Anyway, its only purpose is to be a cheap source of proteins and B12, it replaces the dietary function of meat, while being capable of being grown in hydroponics to replace the need for animals like cows and grazing land.  So it's basically what spacemen will eat instead of meat when they have to go carrying hydroponics tanks with them to Mars or something.

It's not meant to be nutritionally balanced, it's just a protein supplement to go with the other vegetarian diet stuff.  So yeah, tofu/soy is basically what it's competing against.  Of course, they'd have to stop "cheating" on the egg whites for that to happen. 

Of course, there's also the whole exciting prospect of how they're now learning how to use stem cells so that we can literally just grow a single giant chicken muscle in a tank and keep carving it off so that we can have hydroponic chicken meat that feels no pain and doesn't die when you keep slicing it up. 

I remember in "The Pig That Wants To Be Eaten", that was presented as one of the 100 philosophical questions in the book - is a meat product made from a creature that doesn't die, doesn't feel pain, and wants you to eat it fine for vegetarian consumption?  (Even uses a "Restaurant At the End of the Universe" quote as the lead-in.)

Anyway, "enough food for everyone" is just a matter of how much "everyone" we are talking about.  Carrying capacity of the planet is currently set at around 12 billion, and that's if we all go vegan.  We can still eat meat, though, if we cap pop growth to 9 billion or so, however.

And hey, don't worry, I'm fairly sure the places in the most trouble (I'm looking at you Southern Asia) are gonna just go out in a nuclear fireball when the water shortages start.  No worries there.   ::)

Oh, and for funsies, I actually did an algaculture section in the Improved Farming thread.  It also include black smoker vents and hydroculture, which is like a lower-tech version of hydroponics where you use fish in the water to poop more fertilizer for the plants that grow on rafts. 

And yeah, the whole point of the Improved Farming thread was to make players set up closed loop ecosystems for their nutrients.  Conservation of Matter.  Except, you know, when you use decaying goblin corpses or magma irrigation for extra nutrient sources.
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muzzz

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #187 on: April 21, 2012, 07:48:12 pm »

(...)
Of course, there's also the whole exciting prospect of how they're now learning how to use stem cells so that we can literally just grow a single giant chicken muscle in a tank and keep carving it off so that we can have hydroponic chicken meat that feels no pain and doesn't die when you keep slicing it up.
(...)
And hey, don't worry, I'm fairly sure the places in the most trouble (I'm looking at you Southern Asia) are gonna just go out in a nuclear fireball when the water shortages start.  No worries there.   ::)
Blasting giant, immortal chicken muscles with radiation sounds like !!Fun!!
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ThatAussieGuy

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #188 on: April 21, 2012, 08:35:29 pm »

(...)
Of course, there's also the whole exciting prospect of how they're now learning how to use stem cells so that we can literally just grow a single giant chicken muscle in a tank and keep carving it off so that we can have hydroponic chicken meat that feels no pain and doesn't die when you keep slicing it up.
(...)
And hey, don't worry, I'm fairly sure the places in the most trouble (I'm looking at you Southern Asia) are gonna just go out in a nuclear fireball when the water shortages start.  No worries there.   ::)
Blasting giant, immortal chicken muscles with radiation sounds like !!Fun!!

We all know how this ends;  "The Giant Chicken  has come!  It scurries on eight legs and is made of meat.  Beware it's deadly Fire!"


That said, the reactions I usually get are amused laughter at my tales of dwarven horror.

JimmyBobJr

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #189 on: April 21, 2012, 08:36:53 pm »

I was getting my friend to try DF through a convo on Steam. I had sucessfully linked him to The Complete and utter newb guide, gotten him to embark and said "If anything goes wrong, message me, ill help you out".

Five minuites later i saw the message

"*Friends Steam Name* Is now playing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 - Multiplayer"
I immediatly ask
"Whats wrong?"
"Game sucks, playing CoD"
"WAT. CoD is horrible, Play DF or atleast something else!"
"Naw, CoD is the best game ever"

*Person Blocked*

That is litteraly the words that i typed in and got inrespoce. Except i cant remember if i typed WOT or WAT.
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Leatra

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #190 on: April 21, 2012, 09:57:30 pm »

My cousin's reaction:
Cousin walks in the room.

Cousin: Hey, what are you playing?
Me: Dwarf Fortress
C: (very surprised) Wow! I tried playing it with a friend and it was very difficult... How did you learn it?
M: (happy to see a potential DF player) I read some tutorials. You might wanna try it
C: (looks interested) Hmm... What are you doing now?
M: Giving carpenters and masons some job to do in their workshop... (explains how workshops work)
...
C: What are you doing?
M: Digging around for metals and gems.
C: Hmmm...
...
After one more "what are you doing?" cousin loses interest and leaves. We never talked about DF again.

My friend's reaction:
It's a Summer day and it's so hot your pants could stick onto your ass like it's glued. I'm at my place with my friend. We are looking to kill time.

Friend: You got any suggestions for video games?
Me: I don't know... Call of Duty? (knows he won't like DF)
Friend: Something my shitty computer can run. (his RAM is 256 MB, dunno about CPU)
Me: I know some games but they are... very complex (doesn't feel like explaining roguelikes)
Friend: Come on tell me.
Me: (takes the laptop from the table and starts DF) Well, like this one.
Friend:(disgusted) What the fuck is that?
Me:(indifferent) A game called Dwarf Fortress.
F: What's the meaning of all this?
M: It's... complicated. But everything has a meaning. It's actually a very good game once you get the hang of it. (happily explains some basic stuff right away with the hopes of getting him interested into playing)... and right now I'm trying to build a secondary meeting hall. It's where your dwarves go when they want to rest, eat, drink or have nothing else to do...
F: (confused) Wow... This is looks like... SHIT. Turn off that laptop and let's go swimming before I fucking melt.
M: *sigh* Okay. But I'll show you one more game.

I showed him Terraria after that but he said it looks very childish. I stopped trying because the heat from laptop was melting my legs. We played Counter-Strike and Age of Empires 2 on LAN that night.

Now, I try not to talk about DF too much.
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nekronuke

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #191 on: April 21, 2012, 10:11:15 pm »

Had me worried there, thought you were serious, for a second I though this game was turning you into a psychopath!"

I laugh each time my boyfriend cringes whenever I say "Yay! Puppies!" because we both know this means more soap. I've also told him in great detail how an atom smasher works and the dangers of pets and children. Yup, this is a very odd game.

Nekronuke has been taken by a Fey Mood

Marry me.
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runlvlzero

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #192 on: April 21, 2012, 10:13:23 pm »

ROFLMAO that's like calling super Mario Bro's or Donkey Kong, or Pong for that matter childish.

Terriaria looks pretty cool, like a platformer on steroids... Did your friend also ever play Castlevenia or Mega Man??? What about the early Final Fantasies.
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WaffleEggnog

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #193 on: April 21, 2012, 10:18:51 pm »

I was getting my friend to try DF through a convo on Steam. I had sucessfully linked him to The Complete and utter newb guide, gotten him to embark and said "If anything goes wrong, message me, ill help you out".

Five minuites later i saw the message

"*Friends Steam Name* Is now playing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 - Multiplayer"
I immediatly ask
"Whats wrong?"
"Game sucks, playing CoD"
"WAT. CoD is horrible, Play DF or atleast something else!"
"Naw, CoD is the best game ever"

*Person Blocked*

That is litteraly the words that i typed in and got inrespoce. Except i cant remember if i typed WOT or WAT.

Was said person an immature 12 year old? *ohsnapburn*. This, this always happens whenever i play any game that isn't CoD and tell people about it, though i am 14 so that's to be expected, and i dont know why. What is it people see in CoD? Its just people running at each other in waves and insaulting each others... private parts. People (or kids) seem to see it as some super realistic war simulator and it makes them feel "cool" if they play it, though its not. Can you stab both of a guys eyes and slap him with a thong until he bleeds out in CoD?  Can you drop a cat into magma to see how long it takes for tier fat to melt off? I can never show people how in-depth t is though, as they immediatly quit immediatly when they see that it isnt an FPS.

Either that or "Graphics are everything there are no graphicas arnt graphics the only trait of any game doesint how good the graphics are depict the entire game arnt what the game looks like is what makes it good?????". This really sucks as i cant show them how in-depth the game is because they have no *imaginationnnnn*

ROFLMAO that's like calling super Mario Bro's or Donkey Kong, or Pong for that matter childish.

Terriaria looks pretty cool, like a platformer on steroids... Did your friend also ever play Castlevenia or Mega Man??? What about the early Final Fantasies.
Get Terraria. I have it and i have nearly 200 hours playtime, its amazing. Its a steal for 10$.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 10:27:36 pm by WaffleEggnog »
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Sadrice

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Re: Greatest reactions to DF gameplay, ever
« Reply #194 on: April 21, 2012, 10:30:50 pm »

runlvlzero:  I'm not sure how you got that from the wikipedia page about quorn.  It's not a good source of vitamins or minerals, but it is a pretty good cheap protein, most definitely not just a cardboard like texturizing agent.  They add a fairly small amount of albumin as a binder, I can't find a good quantitative list of ingredients, but I don't think the albumin makes up a significant percentage of its protein.  So long as you supplement it with other foods that are good sources of vitamins, like green leafy vegetables and whole grains, it's a perfectly acceptable food item.


Free range poultry is pretty awesome (I have some chickens and a few ducks), but unless you have a lot of land (or incredible amounts of kitchen scraps) and not very many birds, you will have to feed them rather a lot of grain.  Free range chickens are not by any stretch of the imagination eggs for nothing, outside of dwarf fortress, that is.


I've had pretty much no luck getting people to consider playing dwarf fortress, or even be impressed by my stories.  They seem to think that gameplay only counts for something if it's backed up by graphics.
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