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Author Topic: Taffer's Tilesets v6.6.0 for v0.47.04, 9x9 or 18x18 ramp mockup on last page  (Read 303777 times)

Taffer

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Re: Taffer's Tilesets v6.4.1 for v0.44.12 (9x9 and 18x18)
« Reply #705 on: April 05, 2020, 11:29:39 pm »

I'm also obsessed with the initial concept for grass/plant graphics

I think the grass is definitely an improvement in terms of contrast and noise. Although it seems surprisingly organic (i.e. round) compared to your general style. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just an observation. Tree/grass contrast is good enough considering how it's not that important.

Better, CLA? Still like it, Iliithid? New grass is a little less round. Still has less noise and contrast than the original grass. Kind of a compromise between this and this.



Embiggened:



Tileset:



I'm always happy to see your work in progress. Really inspiring and shows how much effort you put into the tileset.

Still makes me smile. :) Thanks again for the kind words, and even bigger thanks for all the detailed critique you gave me.

The non-engraved floor in that mockup irritated me however. It tiles in a bad way. That is, it looks like it isn't supposed to tile, but it glaringly is. With the current-mockup non-engraved floor it shows that it's tiling, but it looks like it's on purpose and while obvious it doesn't steal focus.
The tile design itself is great, but it's a bit too low contrast with the walls for my tastes.




Better, CLA? Maybe the current (v6.6.0) arabic floors are better as you suggested, but I'm still curious about having a diagonal floor pattern.



Engraved floors.



Embiggened.



Engraved walls are very subtle, not sure if that's my thing; I really liked the engraving you had in the mockup before (both walls and floor). It looks very unique and a very good fit to how your style evolved. Have you tried that kind of engraved wall design with orthogonal walls?
...
I'd make the non-engraved floor appear bit darker and play around some more with engravings.

Here's my best shot so far.



Kind of gets the point across but doesn't really have the beauty of the current diagonal walls.



At least it has an okay full-wall tiling pattern.



Maybe I'm being too harsh on the new engraved walls. They're growing on me.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 12:19:28 am by Taffer »
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CLA

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Regarding the grass:
Honestly it looks great. you don't notice it's tiling (i.e. it doesn't repeat in an unpleasing way), you can still recognize the underlying tile structure, and fits very very well with your art style - I think not just with a specific tileset of yours but your art style in general. As you say, you hit a good compromise between the two versions from before. So you definitely have a winner there.
Except, well, it doesn't look like grass; it looks like leaves. Have you considered using it for that instead?

Regarding the walls/floors, the first thing that comes to my mind is that the full-wall tiling patterns look very good. The 15 degree rotated square pattern from an earlier post (in the gif, not sure which one that is) and the last one you posted especially look very nice. Have you considered using that as floor tiles? maybe inverted to increase the contrast between walls/floors. Just as an experiment, because full-wall tiling is reasonably rare in the game and it would be a shame to see these so rarely.
The diagonal floor tiles themselves also look good now. In the enlarged view they look a bit disjointed, but at original zoom level that makes them reveal the tile layout nicely. I'd say it makes a simple and elegant impression. Constructed walls still look great. Engravings make the distinction between floors and walls less clear. I feel like a lot of what makes the non-engraved walls/floors look really good gets lost in the engraved state. It's not an easy problem though.

Looking back at the floors here, the engraved ones looked like they would look nice with the simple diagonal ones you have here. That is, leave the engraved floors as they were there and use the non-engraved ones from your new post.
I'm still not liking the previous "crenelated"-looking engraved walls, though. What if you take the constructed walls as engraved and instead simplify them to get to the constructed walls? For example, remove the middle line frome the non-engraved walls? I'm not sure if I described that well enough, so for reference here's a mockup on how that would look. two versions of non engraved walls. I think I prefer the bottom. I tried to do something similar once, but with 18x18 it didn't work out.


Quote from: Taffer
My vision for the upcoming graphics support is "ASCII with benefits".
Right. I think ASCII-like tilesets can benefit a lot from the improved graphics support. Even if it's just separating text (punctuation, X, ...) from the rest of the tileset. There's a lot on my todo list that I can't wait to try.
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CLA - an ASCII-like Graphic Pack with simplified letter-like creature graphics. The simple and clean looks of ASCII with distinct creature graphics - best of both worlds!

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=105376.0

Meph

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If either of you has any questions about things that can be done, I'd be happy to help. The 9x9 is amazing and the main reason I never made a tiny/ascii set. It just couldn't compare to what you've already done.

Ever thought about using TWBT till then, making unique sprites for a few more objects?

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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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Taffer

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If either of you has any questions about things that can be done, I'd be happy to help.

Thank you for the offer! Does this mockup look like it should be possible with the new version? For example, are the underground edge tiles in Toady's preview generic dirt or will they differ depending on the type of soil? It's kind of hard to tell in my preview but the underground edge tiles are exactly what they would be, just with a dithered overlay.

Can we have little a rectangular font, as a treat?
...
Shaving off a pixel helps with readability.
It depends on how well the implementation actually works in-game. If it ends up with creature descriptions and menu screens obviously off-center or something then probably not. Otherwise, sure.

How will creature descriptions and full-screen menus work, if (for example) the interface font is 8x9 and the game font is 9x9?

9x9 80 tiles wide is 720 pixels, while 8x9 80 tiles wide is 640 pixels. If the creature description is drawn starting from the left edge of the screen, would there be an 80 pixel gap on the right-hand side?

Also, when I set the DF window to anything over 80x25 and use a colour scheme with a non-black background, there's a jarring difference between the "black" of the intro and the "pure black" outside the movie window. Do you know if that's going to get fixed?



I may as well throw in a selfish suggestion, even if it's futile. This might be a good time for Toady to revisit dark green. Honestly the whole "keep track of the true RGB colours of everything and map it to the palette" is a little odd to begin with when you're using the palette system, it just results in weird bugs like this one. If a player wants blue to be green and green to be blue in their palette, DF shouldn't try to correct them (IMO).

The 9x9 is amazing and the main reason I never made a tiny/ascii set. It just couldn't compare to what you've already done.

Thank you!

Ever thought about using TWBT till then, making unique sprites for a few more objects?



I've thought about it, but the honest truth is that it's always sounded too unstable for me. I genuinely appreciate all the work that's gone into it, but as a "clean code, good security practices" OpenBSD and Linux hipster the idea of memory editing a running program has always sounded too fragile for my taste. I'm surprised Windows even allows the behaviour; I recall I had to disable security features in Fedora Linux to get dfhack working. Besides, I honestly don't know if I have it in me to put in all the work for a TWBT tileset only to burn it down again when the Steam release happens.

Unique sprites for items is definitely on the todo list though! I like your sample sprites. 9x9 isn't a lot of space to work with but I'll do what I can. This Tocky screenshot got me interested in Dwarf Fortress to begin with and it would be nice to have things like the little bed and barrel tiles again without visual glitches.

The only thing off the table for me is creature graphics, apart from what I've shown in this preview. I honestly don't think a decent looking, complete creature graphics set is possible at 9x9. Not without heavy repetition and over-reliance on smileys. It would probably also involve colouring the creatures myself, but I want to continue to use the colour theme system. There's a kind of elegant simplicity IMO in using a strict set of colours. (I suppose that's also a question, will I be able to use the old palette system while also using the newer graphical features?)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 01:03:31 pm by Taffer »
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Koumakan

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Alright, Now I really like what I'm seeing
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Meph

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Quote
Thank you for the offer! Does this mockup look like it should be possible with the new version? For example, are the underground edge tiles in Toady's preview generic dirt or will they differ depending on the type of soil?
Yes, that should work.

The soil you can set yourself. Atm it looks like we will go with a generic soil, one clay and one sand, because they have different uses.

Quote
How will creature descriptions and full-screen menus work, if (for example) the interface font is 8x9 and the game font is 9x9?
Haven't done any UI yet, but that should work fine.

Quote
Also, when I set the DF window to anything over 80x25 and use a colour scheme with a non-black background, there's a jarring difference between the "black" of the intro and the "pure black" outside the movie window. Do you know if that's going to get fixed?
Is that only on the intro video?

Quote
I may as well throw in a selfish suggestion, even if it's futile. This might be a good time for Toady to revisit dark green. Honestly the whole "keep track of the true RGB colours of everything and map it to the palette" is a little odd to begin with when you're using the palette system, it just results in weird bugs like this one. If a player wants blue to be green and green to be blue in their palette, DF shouldn't try to correct them (IMO).
I think the colors might see some changes.

Quote
Unique sprites for items is definitely on the todo list though! I like your sample sprites. 9x9 isn't a lot of space to work with but I'll do what I can. This Tocky screenshot got me interested in Dwarf Fortress to begin with and it would be nice to have things like the little bed and barrel tiles again without visual glitches.
I noticed while making the little weapons. I just recently made some 9x12 icons for stockpile signs, it's not much space...

Quote
I honestly don't think a decent looking, complete creature graphics set is possible at 9x9. Not without heavy repetition and over-reliance on smileys. It would probably also involve colouring the creatures myself, but I want to continue to use the colour theme system. There's a kind of elegant simplicity IMO in using a strict set of colours. (I suppose that's also a question, will I be able to use the old palette system while also using the newer graphical features?)
Differently colored smilies, for humanoids, bovines, ursines, felines, etc could work.

Ehm, maybe? Toady just started coding, can't say much about that.

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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Taffer

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The soil you can set yourself. Atm it looks like we will go with a generic soil, one clay and one sand, because they have different uses.

Thanks for confirming! Looks like I need to redo my mockup, I'd thought there'd be one for each type of soil/clay/sand. It looks cleaner this way anyway.





I assume that if the bit of stone at the bottom left is microcline, I'd be able to color it blue?

Is that only on the intro video?

So far as I know, yes.

Ehm, maybe? Toady just started coding, can't say much about that.

Fair. It's too early to tell most things, I'm just excited. Thanks again for the answers.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 12:23:24 pm by Taffer »
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Sasquatch

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I've been gone a while. Been getting back into DF with the new versions.

Would someone be willing to help me replace the d for dorf to the shaded beard dorfs from curses square? I attempted this, but when I load taffer 18x18 into GIMP it tells me taffer.png has an embedded color profile, and no matter if I keep or convert, I lose the beard shading when I paste in the curses beardy dorfs.

I really like this tileset, but I want those shady bearded bastards! They're the only ones who don't smile at me. Thx in advance for any assistance given.
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Taffer

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I attempted this, but when I load taffer 18x18 into GIMP it tells me taffer.png has an embedded color profile, and no matter if I keep or convert, I lose the beard shading when I paste in the curses beardy dorfs.

Image > Mode > RGB, then paste.
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Sasquatch

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Nice! Tyvm. I got them in. Excellent tileset sir! (I don't remember if I told you that years back :D)
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Taffer

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Nice! Tyvm. I got them in. Excellent tileset sir! (I don't remember if I told you that years back :D)

Thank you for the compliment! I'm glad you enjoy it.
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neo6633

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I dont know why my Engraved floors look like that. Not above.


init.txt, d_init.txt, colors.txt installed to .\PeridexisErrant's Starter Pack 0.47.04-r041\LNP\graphics\Taffer_diagonal-walls_18x18\data\init

And installed in LNP.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 09:48:56 am by neo6633 »
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Taffer

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I dont know why my Engraved floors look like that. Not above.

Those are mockups rather than images of a released version. I've been doing a bit of planning for what I want things to look like after the Steam release happens. Sorry for the confusion!
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Senescent

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I'm just getting back into Dwarf Fortress after an extended break and I'm super happy to see you're still working on this tileset. I've always hopped between this and CLA as I love them both so much.

I think the tileset you posted on the 5th with the new grass is beautiful. I'd love to use it but 9x9 is just a bit too tiny for me to comfortably use. Would it be possible to get that version in 18x18?

Regardless, keep up the great work!
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Taffer

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I'm just getting back into Dwarf Fortress after an extended break and I'm super happy to see you're still working on this tileset. I've always hopped between this and CLA as I love them both so much.

The kind words are appreciated. Thank you.

I think the tileset you posted on the 5th with the new grass is beautiful. I'd love to use it but 9x9 is just a bit too tiny for me to comfortably use. Would it be possible to get that version in 18x18?

Regardless, keep up the great work!

No problem, here it is.



Just note that the warning below still applies. This tileset was created as a mockup to prepare for the Steam release, not for the current version of the game. If you have any feedback or critique, please let me know. It's why I post mockups.

Keen observers will probably notice new stair, barrel, switch, hill, and trap graphics. The hills are terrible, though. Just note that there's a reason my tilesets weren't this way from the beginning, you'll have all kinds of stupid looking weirdness in places you don't expect it. Enjoy the magical barrel-shifting screw pumps.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 04:11:49 pm by Taffer »
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