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[simonthedwarf]

 A dragon bone throne would be something nice to own

[Sadrice]

There would be plenty of little dragonlings for turrets of flame, and whatever other uses a controllable ignition source could provide, but there would likely be extra for some very fashionable dragon leather boots, or dragon liver paté for your dwarves to snack on.  Does anyone know whether dragon's [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER]confers any fire resistance on dragonleather products?  I don't think so, I think that has to do with the inherent temperature of the materials (which is such a bizarre and physics breaking concept), but I'm not sure.

Actually, now that I think of it, they have a rather small clutch size, long incubation period, and none would come to reproductive age in the lifetime of your fortress.  So the dragon supply might keep the mayor from having the fabulous high boots he wants so badly until there are sufficient flamethrowers for all of the emplacements at the entrance.  This could be modded easily, and you would already be modding to get dragon hatchlings in the first place, but this is a bit cheatier.

[Sabreur]

The children will be useless for melee defense until they are 1000 years old (size 6000, only slightly larger than cats, at 5000), but will be a valuable source of prepared meals, bonecrafts, prepared meals, soap, and leather goods.  Young dragons could still be used in dragon fire emplacements, bunkered behind fortifications, with shutters in case of archers, but would overall probably be more valuable dead.

Wait, what??? You'd rather have some expensive soap and trade goods* over a defence system that can turn half the map into flame (assuming sufficiently prolific dragons and pillboxes)? That doesn't even need magma??

You are no dwarf.

*An exception is allowed if you can get a dragon bone throne via moods.

Going through 20 miscellaneous dwarves and a few engineering accidents for the sake of dragon tallow soap sounds pretty dwarfy to me!  In all seriousness, if they breed fast enough he can probably do both - dragonsoap *and* a dragon pillbox defense system.

[Urist Da Vinci]

...anyone know whether dragon's [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER]confers any fire resistance on dragonleather products?  I don't think so, I think that has to do with the inherent temperature of the materials (which is such a bizarre and physics breaking concept), but I'm not sure....

Nope, but dragons do have this at the end of their raws:

Code: [Select]

[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[MULTIPLY_VALUE:15]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
[IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_MELTING_POINT:55000]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_BOILING_POINT:57000]
[SPEC_HEAT:30000]
Need to make sure blood and pus aren't solid at regular temperatures.
[SELECT_MATERIAL:BLOOD]
[PLUS_MATERIAL:PUS]
[MELTING_POINT:10000]
so dragon products aren't going to be melting, burning, or damaged by heat/cold.

[simonthedwarf]

to me treating dragons like common leather/bone/meat products belittles them. so many animals are already little other than this.

[Sabreur]

to me treating dragons like common leather/bone/meat products belittles them. so many animals are already little other than this.

Taking a mighty creature and turning it into soap is a dwarven rite of passage!  They should be honored to have their tallow rendered for such a noble cause.

[Lagslayer]

An entire fortress made of dragon by-products. It must be modded.

[Naryar]

I have [CHILD:200] as for my dragons. It seems alright, for a beast that can live forever.

And they totally breed in their lairs.

[Saiko Kila]

I have [CHILD:200] as for my dragons. It seems alright, for a beast that can live forever.

I don't know. Elves and goblins also live forever, and they mature much quicker than that. In any way I find immortal creatures disgusting because they are abominations against nature. Therefore I'd prefer to use them as leather and bone donors more than as any form of defence. I don't know about elves, but dragons can be quite crappy against tough opponents, like metal Fbs. In one of previous fortresses I had three dragons dying to one metal(*) FB who, although melting and all, was still capable to punch the brains out of these dragons and stain the nearby environment with them. One bolt from a marksdwarf was enough to kill that beast.

If there were ways to lay sieges to enemies then dragons would be useful. Their dragonfire is hotter (and/or differently working) than magma and can destroy a surprisingly wide selection of objects and constructions. But in dwarven fortresses they are more a liability than an asset.

_{*)zinc FB. Zinc is the metal which boils in magma. Zinc supports and cages evaporate faster than wooden ones in magma. Yet the dragons couldn't fry it.}

[Sabreur]

But in dwarven fortresses they are more a liability than an asset.

Much like the dwarves themselves!

[Sadrice]

I don't think they would be very good at direct combat, too valuable and too delicate.  They would be very useful hidden away in purpose built dragon turrets, whether for setting fire to the landscape or just melting goblins and elves.  If you placed one behind a fortification behind a raised bridge looking into a chokepoint in your entrance, the bridge could be dropped at the last second (or sooner if no invader marksmen are present) to melt them all.  There could be a hatch in the ceiling to drop a hostile creature/captured goblin into the midst of an elven caravan, causing the dragon to melt them all.

So, since dragon leather is incapable of burning, does that in any way affect the fate of a dwarf wearing it that comes in contact with fire or magma?

[Walkaboutout]

Okay, so, someone tell me if I have this right.

1) Egg Size in the raws doesn't seem to determine hatch time. The Child tag controls the hatching.
   
1a) I would think that, if egg size DID control hatching time, not having the child tag would simply mean that the dragon would hatch as an adult, but be of the size determined also in the raws. Oh well.

2) On body size. According to the raws, all dragons, until they reach 1000 years old, are of size 6000. At year 1000, according to the raw, their size then changes to 25 million. Wow!

In all the fortresses I've ever encountered a dragon, I don't think it was ever 1000 years or older. I've never generated a world that was that old, in fact all my generated worlds are generated only up to 125 years. Now, I've never really looked at the legends stuff until very recently (it's a whole new dimension of fun for me), so I don't KNOW for certain how old those few dragons might have been.

But in my current game, the dragon that appeared at my fortress that I trapped (invader dragons aren't trap immune of course) and trained, is only (I'm not at home at the moment), about 100 or so years old. The year was like 132 or something when he appeared, and in legends it said he was born about 100 years back. Again, I forget the exact number but I'll look when I get home.

Assuming that in world gen those body size tags apply there too, is it safe to assume that all dragons I at least have ever encountered were only, as powerful as they were/are (thanks firebreath!), about 6000 in physical size? That's about half the size of a 1 year old dog, according to their raws also.

If that's the case, then all I can say is Holy Armok's Beard! I would also suggest that, if modding dragon children in, perhaps editing their size tags would be in order. Something like, at 5 years, they're size 10000, etc. Or do those body size tags work differently than I think? Does the creature grow in equal increments every singe year such that it reaches whatever size is defined by the next body size tag or something like that?

[Sphalerite]

1) Egg Size in the raws doesn't seem to determine hatch time. The Child tag controls the hatching.

Correct.  The egg size value doesn't seem to do anything, other than possibly determine how heavy the eggs are for purposes of carrying them.

2) On body size. According to the raws, all dragons, until they reach 1000 years old, are of size 6000. At year 1000, according to the raw, their size then changes to 25 million. Wow!

Actually, it appears that creatures change size gradually.  A dragon starts at size 6000, then gradually increases in size until it is 25 million at age 1000.

[PoodleIncident]

We've been over this. Body size scales up linearly, and they grow a bit per year.

The 1000 year bodysize is just there to satisfy the "dragons never stop growing" trope, a common bit of dragon lore.

NINJAS

HIDE THE CHILDREN

[Walkaboutout]

Ahhh. Thanks for clarifying all. And you're right, der, page 2 and 3. Sigh. I guess I need to be getting more sleep these days, don't I? But these dwarves need CONSTANT supervision! I do wish there was a way to check size in game at a given time. Some type of add on or something. Therapist doesn't that I know of, or DFHack. Donno about Runesmith, never used it, though I think I read that it hasn't been updated for the latest DF anyways. Ah wells. I'll just bite my tongue now.