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[King Mir]

I still say dwarvish shouldn't have gender. Gender doesn't play an important role in dwarven society, as it does in human society.

[mastahcheese]

This seems very awesome, even if making me extremly embarased to admit that I've learned more elvish than dwarven through this game, I still don't know how.


...Iwethi is just an awesome word for "Hurricane" though.

[dwarfhoplite]

I cant help wondering what's the point of creating this language. Like, what is it used for in the game?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Names, mostly. We're just obsessed with detail.

[dwarfhoplite]

Great if someone is willing to create a language on voluntary basis.

[FearfulJesuit]

I still say dwarvish shouldn't have gender. Gender doesn't play an important role in dwarven society, as it does in human society.

Language geek to the rescue!

Grammatical gender and natural gender haven't anything to do with each other, for the most part; they're mostly arbitrary, and even when they aren't they still don't have anything to do with each other. Are we to expect that speakers of Italian, German and French, which have a masculine/feminine gender dichotomy (as well as neuter in German), are necessarily more sexist or were at one point more sexist than speakers of Chinese, Japanese, or Turkish, which don't have any gender marking at all?

For that matter, what about "weirder" gender systems from non-Indo-European and non-Afro-Asiatic languages? What if Dwarven were to work in this regard like Dyirbal, and had four genders: one for men and most animate objects, one for the famous women, fire and dangerous things (violence and exceptional animals in this case, as well as for some reason water), one for edible vegitation, and one for everything else? What if it were to work like Fula, which has twenty-five genders, only one or two of which correspond to anything resembling natural gender? What if it were to work like most Algonquian, Athabaskan and Uto-Aztecan languages and have a gender system that divides inanimate/animate?

You see?

[Owlbread]

I cant help wondering what's the point of creating this language. Like, what is it used for in the game?

That and, also, to speak on the forums as an actual conlang like klingon. It would help to publicise the game and allow us to become hypergeeks. I am willing to make this language in my own time if you gentlemen like what I've done already. You can also take what I've done and adapt it to whatever you think is best.

My fantasy is that we will one day have entire forums and threads in Dwarfish.

[dwarfhoplite]

that would be not nerd enough

On a second thought, that would be awesome.

[Inarius]

I agree with dhokarena56

Dwarf language should have one gender for dwarves, one for magma, one for forgotten beasts, and one for the rest :p

[dwarfhoplite]

I think there should be gender for dwarves, one for alcohol and one for all the rest.

[Owlbread]

Think about it though - gender only really becomes relevant if you are using articles and complicated systems like the Russians have of conjugating verbs relating to the object's gender. If you have no articles and all nouns behave the same, then you will almost never have to worry about gender, only in the case of personal pronouncs like "he, she, it".

[King Mir]

I still say dwarvish shouldn't have gender. Gender doesn't play an important role in dwarven society, as it does in human society.

Language geek to the rescue!

Grammatical gender and natural gender haven't anything to do with each other, for the most part; they're mostly arbitrary, and even when they aren't they still don't have anything to do with each other. Are we to expect that speakers of Italian, German and French, which have a masculine/feminine gender dichotomy (as well as neuter in German), are necessarily more sexist or were at one point more sexist than speakers of Chinese, Japanese, or Turkish, which don't have any gender marking at all?

For that matter, what about "weirder" gender systems from non-Indo-European and non-Afro-Asiatic languages? What if Dwarven were to work in this regard like Dyirbal, and had four genders: one for men and most animate objects, one for the famous women, fire and dangerous things (violence and exceptional animals in this case, as well as for some reason water), one for edible vegitation, and one for everything else? What if it were to work like Fula, which has twenty-five genders, only one or two of which correspond to anything resembling natural gender? What if it were to work like most Algonquian, Athabaskan and Uto-Aztecan languages and have a gender system that divides inanimate/animate?

You see?

Well I think that the fact that some languages have male and female gender says something about humans in general, not necessarily about the particular culture.

Also, you're right that gender could be arbitrary, but I think it's better if in any choices we make, we avoid the arbitrary, and where we can make the language reflect the game. Why would dwarves have male female and neuter gender? On the other hand there is a firm in game distinction between animate and inanimate, so it would be reasonable to have a gender-like construct reflect that.

[Owlbread]

I still say dwarvish shouldn't have gender. Gender doesn't play an important role in dwarven society, as it does in human society.

Language geek to the rescue!

Grammatical gender and natural gender haven't anything to do with each other, for the most part; they're mostly arbitrary, and even when they aren't they still don't have anything to do with each other. Are we to expect that speakers of Italian, German and French, which have a masculine/feminine gender dichotomy (as well as neuter in German), are necessarily more sexist or were at one point more sexist than speakers of Chinese, Japanese, or Turkish, which don't have any gender marking at all?

For that matter, what about "weirder" gender systems from non-Indo-European and non-Afro-Asiatic languages? What if Dwarven were to work in this regard like Dyirbal, and had four genders: one for men and most animate objects, one for the famous women, fire and dangerous things (violence and exceptional animals in this case, as well as for some reason water), one for edible vegitation, and one for everything else? What if it were to work like Fula, which has twenty-five genders, only one or two of which correspond to anything resembling natural gender? What if it were to work like most Algonquian, Athabaskan and Uto-Aztecan languages and have a gender system that divides inanimate/animate?

You see?

Well I think that the fact that some languages have male and female gender says something about humans in general, not necessarily about the particular culture.

Also, you're right that gender could be arbitrary, but I think it's better if in any choices we make, we avoid the arbitrary, and where we can make the language reflect the game. Why would dwarves have male female and neuter gender? On the other hand there is a firm in game distinction between animate and inanimate, so it would be reasonable to have a gender-like construct reflect that.

I think it's inappropriate to judge that just because the community do not distinguish between male or female dwarves, Toady's vision of Dwarven society doesn't. We have no idea of the actual attitudes of Dwarven society towards women, just what we have assumed based on the current format (which does not fully reflect the class systems, racial and ethnic tension etc of the societies shown by Threetoe).

[King Mir]

I still say dwarvish shouldn't have gender. Gender doesn't play an important role in dwarven society, as it does in human society.

Language geek to the rescue!

Grammatical gender and natural gender haven't anything to do with each other, for the most part; they're mostly arbitrary, and even when they aren't they still don't have anything to do with each other. Are we to expect that speakers of Italian, German and French, which have a masculine/feminine gender dichotomy (as well as neuter in German), are necessarily more sexist or were at one point more sexist than speakers of Chinese, Japanese, or Turkish, which don't have any gender marking at all?

For that matter, what about "weirder" gender systems from non-Indo-European and non-Afro-Asiatic languages? What if Dwarven were to work in this regard like Dyirbal, and had four genders: one for men and most animate objects, one for the famous women, fire and dangerous things (violence and exceptional animals in this case, as well as for some reason water), one for edible vegitation, and one for everything else? What if it were to work like Fula, which has twenty-five genders, only one or two of which correspond to anything resembling natural gender? What if it were to work like most Algonquian, Athabaskan and Uto-Aztecan languages and have a gender system that divides inanimate/animate?

You see?

Well I think that the fact that some languages have male and female gender says something about humans in general, not necessarily about the particular culture.

Also, you're right that gender could be arbitrary, but I think it's better if in any choices we make, we avoid the arbitrary, and where we can make the language reflect the game. Why would dwarves have male female and neuter gender? On the other hand there is a firm in game distinction between animate and inanimate, so it would be reasonable to have a gender-like construct reflect that.

I think it's inappropriate to judge that just because the community do not distinguish between male or female dwarves, Toady's vision of Dwarven society doesn't. We have no idea of the actual attitudes of Dwarven society towards women, just what we have assumed based on the current format (which does not fully reflect the class systems, racial and ethnic tension etc of the societies shown by Threetoe).

My reasoning comes more from the fact that dwarf names are not gendered, and neither is work status, than from the community. If we're going to make up a language, I think the game should be inspiration to the greatest extent possible. In the game dwarves do not have large gender differences, like human societies historically had. Therefor a language that does not have gender is more fitting for dwarves than one that does.

And if you prefer Threetoes stories as source material over the actual game, admittedly I have not read many of them, but as far as I am aware, they do not depict the gender inequalities in dwarven societies that were typical of our Middle Ages. Ergo gender is not so important to dwarves.

[Helgoland]

I still say dwarvish shouldn't have gender. Gender doesn't play an important role in dwarven society, as it does in human society.

Language geek to the rescue!

Grammatical gender and natural gender haven't anything to do with each other, for the most part; they're mostly arbitrary, and even when they aren't they still don't have anything to do with each other. Are we to expect that speakers of Italian, German and French, which have a masculine/feminine gender dichotomy (as well as neuter in German), are necessarily more sexist or were at one point more sexist than speakers of Chinese, Japanese, or Turkish, which don't have any gender marking at all?

For that matter, what about "weirder" gender systems from non-Indo-European and non-Afro-Asiatic languages? What if Dwarven were to work in this regard like Dyirbal, and had four genders: one for men and most animate objects, one for the famous women, fire and dangerous things (violence and exceptional animals in this case, as well as for some reason water), one for edible vegitation, and one for everything else? What if it were to work like Fula, which has twenty-five genders, only one or two of which correspond to anything resembling natural gender? What if it were to work like most Algonquian, Athabaskan and Uto-Aztecan languages and have a gender system that divides inanimate/animate?

You see?

Well I think that the fact that some languages have male and female gender says something about humans in general, not necessarily about the particular culture.

Also, you're right that gender could be arbitrary, but I think it's better if in any choices we make, we avoid the arbitrary, and where we can make the language reflect the game. Why would dwarves have male female and neuter gender? On the other hand there is a firm in game distinction between animate and inanimate, so it would be reasonable to have a gender-like construct reflect that.

I think it's inappropriate to judge that just because the community do not distinguish between male or female dwarves, Toady's vision of Dwarven society doesn't. We have no idea of the actual attitudes of Dwarven society towards women, just what we have assumed based on the current format (which does not fully reflect the class systems, racial and ethnic tension etc of the societies shown by Threetoe).

My reasoning comes more from the fact that dwarf names are not gendered, and neither is work status, than from the community. If we're going to make up a language, I think the game should be inspiration to the greatest extent possible. In the game dwarves do not have large gender differences, like human societies historically had. Therefor a language that does not have gender is more fitting for dwarves than one that does.

And if you prefer Threetoes stories as source material over the actual game, admittedly I have not read many of them, but as far as I am aware, they do not depict the gender inequalities in dwarven societies that were typical of our Middle Ages. Ergo gender is not so important to dwarves.

The human names aren't gendered either, mind you. Though I'm all for a genderless dwarven language; I just belive we should keep in mind that this is a design decision.