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Author Topic: *What Grinds Your Gears?  (Read 10788 times)

Mr S

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2012, 09:28:10 am »

Hey, look.  I got another 30 dwarf migration despite hitting my population cap two seasons ago.

The population cap is broken, and is reliant on your liaison not getting gutted by the goblin ambush that spawned next to him.

Not broken, just not working the way you expected it.  There are any number of threads that discuss, in detail, how the pop cap works. Short answer, it's like having help wanted ads in the paper, and they run all week whether you like it or not, and the new employees bring their kids, and the kids bring their kittens.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2012, 10:21:25 am »

Not broken, just not working the way you expected it.  There are any number of threads that discuss, in detail, how the pop cap works. Short answer, it's like having help wanted ads in the paper, and they run all week whether you like it or not, and the new employees bring their kids, and the kids bring their kittens.

The fact that it is related to an in-game function in spite of being an init option is a major flaw.

I can turn temperature off in the init files, and walk through magma just fine.  I can turn the weather off in init files just long enough to enjoy a sunny stroll, save, then turn the rain back on when I'm inside.  These things have absolutely no relation to in-game events, they're controls outside the game over what functions of the game are running to save FPS.

Meanwhile, the most direct killer of FPS has an init option that should allow you to throttle this FPS killer, but it doesn't work unless some arbitrary in-game trigger condition functions properly, and there are numerous reasons why it wouldn't.

If it's not "broken" because it's "working as intended", it's a case study in one of the worst design decisions Toady has ever made. 

Either way, "it's a feature, not a bug" is not an excuse for not fixing the problem.
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Werdna

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2012, 11:39:04 am »

Toss up between massive migrant waves, and menu lists that don't consistently use the same keys for navigating through items.

I really wish all lists had the 'select' filtering option, it is so useful but used on so few menus.
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kaenneth

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2012, 03:04:25 pm »

Not having one standard list control is the big one for me as well.

I work at... a large software company in Redmond... and having a consistent user interface is a big, important thing.
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Splint

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2012, 03:41:02 pm »

I hate that dwarves run away from the safty fo the fort upon seeing hostiles, but if you look at it, it's actually a logical option.

They try to lead the enemy away from the fort then double back around, allowing to you to assemble the milita and ready the more complicated traps requiring lever operators. Either way, them going away from the fort is possibly an AI bid to sacrifice the one dorf to save the rest of the fortress. Which if this is indeed the case, is a suprisingly genius move on the AI's part. Lose one, save the rest (Might have to deal with depression in the workforce afterwards, but still.)

Plus not all civvies run. Hunters are a tough lot and they have a tendency to stand thier ground as any soldier would. And then lay in a bloody mess on the ground. I had a mechanic who just happened to have a disc launcher (custom weapon for a mod I'm the idea man for) and he stood his fucking ground. a 157 year old wrinkled fuck fired off two discs. First one missed, the second severed a white tigerman's leg.

Now onto another annyoing thing, is something that annoys me being certain professions not working. And others seeming to serve no purpose. And medical operation having painfully low priority.

DanteThanatos

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2012, 07:59:40 pm »

Running from the SAFETY of a Fort isnt a logical option, is a dumb one.

The AI for a Civilian running from any hostile is: RUN! As fast as your short(but sturdy) legs can! AWAY FROM IT!
Even if I they have a Weapon trap with 10 *Serrated Steel Discs* TWO TILES from them and if any hostile is between the dwarf and the trap they will run away and not AROUND the hostile.

There is no 'self-sacrifice' AI here.
There is no Stand Ground AI. The behavior you meant is (as I take it):
"IF_Threatened
Actual Status:
CIV. >> RUN!
Soldier. >> Fight.
Hunter. >> Empty your Quiver at the Threat...THEN RUN!"

But to the thread: I hate the Military equipment. The way you just can't know if a Specific Weapon was taken or not, unless you check every other Speardwarf to see if their Steel Spear was gone from the Uniform menu.(I know they take the best weapon there is for them, thats exactly why I want them to use the Steel Spear not the Adamantine Sword of the Swordsdwarf squad.)
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2012, 08:26:17 pm »

Windmills grind my gears.

Splint

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2012, 09:52:57 pm »

No to make this a debate, but come on, if they run past your gate (When they can reach it without fear of injury) it at least seems like they're trying to help by drawing off attackers. That's just how I like to look at it in some cases (Not all. Some cases it is legitamate AI fail right there.)

Besides, given that it seems like dwarves have some concept of tactical thinking at times; I have in fact seen dwarves circle around to cut off a target's retreat thier own. Rare, but it happens, and Caravans have guards, so they're probably trying to put the guards in between them and the enemy. Or at least I think that's what is intended for it to look like. And I know it's not really implemented, but at least it's better than them just being stupid.

I mean which is better to look at it as:

Urist: Oh shit! Goblins! Oh crap, they're coming right for me... COG! CALL THE MILITIA! I'LL TRY TO DISTRACT THEM! - runs from the fort, hoping to give the milita time to arm and position themselves - If he dies, oh well. At leat the enemy is further away, thus taking longer to reach the fort and thus one moment of genius/idocy might save the rest of the miserable dump. Unless a kitten or something garnered the invaders' attention.

Or:
Urist: DERPDERPDERPDERPDERP -runs from safty accidently like a moron- < granted that one makes me laugh/ is waaaaaaaay funnier to picture, but still.

And for the record, you came off as a little hostile. And I probably sound like a know-it-all bitch.

Another irksome thing: Anything that flies more than 1 z-level. Ravens, thrips people, crowmen anything with wings basically.... They murder my FPS cause of thier fucktarded pathing. I've been annoyed by it enough that if they happen to be particularly.... endemic I guess is the word, I removed the flier tag and let them kerplode on the ground.

God I wish thier pathing wasn't so intensive...

zombie urist

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2012, 10:11:35 pm »

Troglodytes piss me off the most. They come in huge swarms and can even kill a decently trained, well armored dwarf. The worst part is that they can't be butchered and their corpses take up my stockpiles.
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DanteThanatos

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2012, 11:22:19 pm »

Sorry man I was angry by something irl when I was typping but I'm ok now.
I dont want to sound like that. :-\
About the "getting time for militia" I think the better would be we learning to use the Patrol schedule(Why would we? hehehe).That would really be the most logical scenario. I mean, after some years the fort do have some iron to work on(Hell, I get a Steel Axe right off the Embark! after many smeltings out in the open) and a real fort would at least have an equiped guard at the entrace!


Back on topic...another thing that makes me cringe: Elven trade goods. Dont they have anything better to trade? I would love slaves. Hauler Slaves? Eternal, tamed, huger-less goblin hauler? Way better than a Dwarf hauler.
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2012, 11:25:27 pm »

the reference was hardly obscure enough to warrant a cookie. that grinds my gears

Splint

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2012, 11:42:51 pm »

No worries. And oddly enough, there's minor debate on slaves in the suggestion thing.

Alot of what's shooting it down is the stupid ethics dwarves supposedly have.

JujuBubu

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2012, 03:11:40 am »

Keas at my current fort :)

Invade as a flying swarm and stole a artifact toy.

And birds can't get butchered
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Splint

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2012, 04:58:26 am »

Actually they can. If you have the dwarves set to gather crap outside, a butcher with free time and a shop will handle it. I got a hefty amount of kea lather from one kea a dog ripped apart (got leather from 4 body parts. a wing, both legs and the corpses itself.)

chewie

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Re: *What Grinds Your Gears?
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2012, 07:48:25 am »

Oh, and handling all the umpteen hojillion different types of fat and tallow in cooking and soap making. Can has a "cook no tallow" option plz? Tallow should go towards making soap, not tons and tons of *tallow roast*s while there's barrel after barrel of unused plants, syrup and fish in the food stockpile.

This is a crundle tallow roast. Its ingredients are crundle tallow, cat tallow, sheep tallow and crundle tallow. (EWW!)

(Well, in the future update this can be corrected by setting the stockpile with all the fish and no tallow as the kitchen supply. Rendering fat is another matter though... :-\ )

You don't know about the Z--> Kitchen menu, do you? If I'm right, tallow does show up there too and can be (de)activated for cooking, as can seeds, plants and everything else cookable.

About the Running-away-from-the-fort issue: IMO it can't be intended behaviour, but just happens due to the way pathfinding works. Could be fixed if the game would temporarly set a certain area around hostiles as restricted-traffic, so the dwarves would walk around them.
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