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[aristabulus]

Were you trying to play at or near release? Because it's an almost universal truth these days that Day 0, 1 and maybe 2 are generally just shit for performance.
...

I didn't take notes, but I feel like it was about a week and a half after launch.  I was expecting the first few days to be a mess; by the time I got around to it, a numbered fix-patch and a few hotfixes had gone out.

I suppose if/how they retune Malachai's fight will factor in also.  If he morphs into a near-faceroll fight (the way Piety and Dominus did before him), no points will be won with me.

I'd expect these fights to get tuned down, hopefully. Merciless Dominus doesn't even really bother me anymore, as tedious a fight as it is. What I REALLY hope for that is you don't have to kill three goddamn bosses every time you want to go fight Malachai. That fight is bad enough already without having another 20 minutes added on to the front of it, and the risk of a total reset if you DC.

Tuned down is one thing... tuned down to faceroll territory is quite another.  I get that GGG wants the difficulty-ender boss to be a challenge, but the stark contrast isn't warming my heart for their design methods.

-----

I personally haven't used the ggpk defragger, but it'll be a while before that's relevant for me.  Once Act 5 is released, I'll be working from a fresh install.

[miljan]

A new wiki like tutorial on china beta servers
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/5874hx/actual_in_game_tutorialwiki/

And also Revive Coins for china part
http://imgur.com/gallery/pyva8

For the lag on beginning there is a command you can add somewhere (i think its  --noasync to the shortcut icon), so the game works like before when it tries to load all the assets on the start of the game (the start of the game will take longer but there will be no lag/frezes when you are in the game)

[Aklyon]

The wiki is an interesting idea.
The coins just sound like generic mmo cashshop fodder though, and I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled that from the garena realm for the chinese one.

Thanks for the china news, miljan.

[nenjin]

Yeah, I find the idea of paying to remove a penalty I've fucking hated since Day 1 to be beyond the pale. I would not be surprised if those do not show up over here in America. Because it flies directly in the face of "cosmetic cash shop." I suppose technically Currency tabs already did that but XP loss is that something every player struggles with.

[Kazagarth]

As someone who loved Diablo 2 (mostly because the Necromancer was amazing). Would Path of Exile be worth getting into? I don't mind grindy games, as it gives something to work toward.

I didn't like Diablo 3 as much (though they are finally making a Necromancer class, which will make the game playable at least for me) and didn't really like Torchlight 2 either.

A lot of my friends always talk about Path of Exile, but never actually gone in and downloaded it.

[Retropunch]

As someone who loved Diablo 2 (mostly because the Necromancer was amazing). Would Path of Exile be worth getting into? I don't mind grindy games, as it gives something to work toward.

I didn't like Diablo 3 as much (though they are finally making a Necromancer class, which will make the game playable at least for me) and didn't really like Torchlight 2 either.

A lot of my friends always talk about Path of Exile, but never actually gone in and downloaded it.

I'd say it's pretty much as close to Diablo 2 as you can get without being Diablo 2. It's the Diablo 3 we never got, and it's really, really awesome - couldn't recommend it enough to a fellow D2 fan. The multiplayer is solid too if you're into that, but it's a fun game on it's own. It doesn't really have a necromancer analogue, but the Witch is pretty close. You'll find the skill system (you find skills or get them a quest reward rather than just level up and get them) a bit strange at first, but it honestly works very well later down the line - bare with it.

It's also probably the best free game ever made.

MINOR CAVEAT: There's a lot of end game stuff for superfans which you either love or hate. I never got into it as I can't grind that much, and I don't find much fun in trying to put together a set of armour over 30 hours. It doesn't interfere with the main game too much, it's just something to remember when people start ranting on about maxing whatever build and you're feeling a bit lost.

[ragnar119]

As someone who loved Diablo 2 (mostly because the Necromancer was amazing). Would Path of Exile be worth getting into? I don't mind grindy games, as it gives something to work toward.

I didn't like Diablo 3 as much (though they are finally making a Necromancer class, which will make the game playable at least for me) and didn't really like Torchlight 2 either.

A lot of my friends always talk about Path of Exile, but never actually gone in and downloaded it.

There is still no d2 necromancer  like class in any arpg game out there. Having a army of around 30 permanent summons following you was so fun and relaxing (some would even say boring, but I loved it).

If you are searching for necromancer  like feel  in PoE you will not find one like what d2 had, but there is a summoner. You will not have a huge number of mobs (max permanent ones around 10), and there is a problem with your units not able to block enemies because of small unit collision and AI of your minions but also enemies. But the game is free and a good one so, its worth a try.

You should also check Grim Dawn. Generally PoE, Grim Dawn and D3 are the 3 big arpg games out there, and every one of them is somewhat unique and does something different.

[Kazagarth]

Thanks. That actually sounds rather fun. Most games don't tend to have huge number of minions anymore, but 10 is still a nice amount and more than what a lot of games give you for summoned minions.

I'll have to download it this weekend and give it a try. It looks really involved, especially for a free game.

[miljan]

As someone who loved Diablo 2 (mostly because the Necromancer was amazing). Would Path of Exile be worth getting into? I don't mind grindy games, as it gives something to work toward.

I didn't like Diablo 3 as much (though they are finally making a Necromancer class, which will make the game playable at least for me) and didn't really like Torchlight 2 either.

A lot of my friends always talk about Path of Exile, but never actually gone in and downloaded it.

If you want diablo 2 like game, you should get grim dawn, as it is the closest game to diablo out there. POE is also good, but it also has a lot of core problems.

[Retropunch]

Whilst I really enjoy Grim Dawn, I'd say PoE is definitely more Diablo 2 style in terms of 'feeling'.

Grim Dawn is very much like Titan Quest (made by the same guys I think) and whilst that's good, it does feel a bit clunky somehow. It also doesn't have quite the same sort of level of atmosphere or polish that PoE has, and the story is a bit meh. By that, I mean that PoE seems like a bit more of an adventure (Acts, just like D2) whereas GD is just a bit of a slog through swamps or deserts.

Great game though, but PoE is much more D2-like in my opinion. I'd also say PoE has more of a necromancer option than GD does

[Retropunch]

PoE has developed a huge and complex item system - crafting and combining special items that can manipulate your loot (by adding sockets to it, for example), which in turn affects your skills. People sometimes joke that the actual game is the trading aspect, and the combat is a minigame. I wouldn't go that far, but... I laud PoE for its depth, but ultimately I found that many of its most innovative systems end up detracting from the actual meat of the game.

By comparison, Grim Dawn is in some ways more simple, and definitely less focused on multiplayer, but it's much more similar to Diablo 2 in my opinion. There are skill trees for each class, the combat feels much more responsive, and you spend much more of your time actually playing the game rather than messing with your inventory or looking things up on external websites . The biggest flaw I've found is that it's too long - each act is about a third longer than it needs to be - and there's consequently an issue with pacing.

I think that's what my caveat was meant to express. Path of Exile CAN get into a min-maxing inventory management nightmare, but I honestly just ignored all that completely - I never looked anything up (other than a cursory look through the wiki at different classes and whatever, like I normally would for any game) and I just didn't worry about it all - I just used the skills that I wanted. Yeah, I used some of the orbs to change socket colours, but it never felt a burden or complex. I wouldn't say (at a basic level) that it's any more complex than the gem system in Diablo 2, only that you're sometimes limited in what skills you can use based on loot.

I don't find GD very snappy somehow - I guess I never had lag problems with PoE, but PoE felt more fast paced and sort of 'visceral' whereas GD feels a bit more like one of the older D2 clones. 

It's all about personal preference, and whilst I love both, I just feel that PoE captures the D2 atmosphere and play style much better (even if it does have some different mechanics), whereas Grim Dawn is TQ:mk2.

[Aklyon]

Theres also this wiki page, for relevance to diablo. Might be outdated though.

[nenjin]

There is still no d2 necromancer  like class in any arpg game out there. Having a army of around 30 permanent summons following you was so fun and relaxing (some would even say boring, but I loved it).

I'm going to have to say this isn't true.

I've got an 82 Witch/Necromancer.

10 Permanent Zombies rocking Fortify/Poison/Multistrike.

4 Permanent Spectres with Dmg/Life.

1 Permanent Fire Golem for kicks.

Up to 15 Skeletons that are temporary...but I can drop a totem where I want to resummon them and they last like 45 seconds on their own.

All my minions explode at 20% life for damage, and then leave a poisonous cloud behind. All of them have Minion Life/Damage out the wazoo.

Add on to that a AoE Fire Damage buff for them, a corpse generating ability that leaves a poisonous cloud, a corpse exploding ability that gives all my minions Chaos damage, Resists, Energy Shield....

And then my actual primary attack ability which, because I have a decent unique for it, Firestorm with Flammability Curse on it.

And if I choose to use Vaal Summon Skeletons....We're talking upwards of 60 minions on screen. (Granted half of those are temporary.)

....And people say PoE doesn't have a Necromancer analog . My Witch is easily as fun and enjoyable as my D2 Necromancer. I have so many beefy pets that I die 95% of the time before any of my minions.

---

I really like PoE. I have plenty of issues with it too but they're outweighed by the positives. The challenge is both a like and a dislike. It feels gratifying to overcome challenges in PoE (especially if your build is just average as compared to completely broken.) Having a build come together that you own and you're constantly optimizing feels really gratifying. Beyond the build there's so many layers and additions to gameplay that, even when I'm not raking in upgrades at the end game I always feel like I've gotten something for my time. Currency, mainly, especially for those hard to upgrade items. But also a steady stream of Unique items I've still not plumbed the depths of, any one the potential basis for a whole new character.

The game does straddle the edge of frustrating at times, and you have to burn your hand repeatedly on the stove to learn what is too risky to attempt. Some people find that a big turn off. As mentioned, your first character will probably find themselves pretty outclassed in the end game, and while it's quicker to level a second one than the first, you still have to play the fucking game x3 over again. (Not to mention do the Labyrinth and beat Izaro 4 times to fully unlock your Ascendancy, something half of PoE players seem to hate.)

I'd argue all that time is sort of well spent though, since you have to put a lot of time in to PoE to a) learn b) progress c) experiment d) amass enough currency to do what you want and e) gear up.

I've played the game completely solo so far and played with 99% self found gear. People make a lot of noise about PoE being about trading but I've largely ignored it. Not trading has slowed me down considerably, sure, but I don't have to spend time on sorting  drops for sellability, checking prices, haggling, flipping, blah blah blah, and I've still had a good time. About the only thing not trading does other than restrict you to self-found upgrades is preclude high end gear crafting and gear customization. I don't know if that bleeding edge of optimal gear is required for the absolute end game or not, but I'm not too worried about it.

As for trading, this weekend I finally made a stash tab public so I can sell off some of the duplicate uniques I've amassed. I can't bring myself to vendor them, even though I look at what they go for in the standard league and it's practically what you can get from a vendor most of the time...

Not grouping also makes the grind to 100 truly, truly agonizingly slow. Also something I'm ok with it, because I play at a snail's pace anyways.

All that said, the real question for if someone will like PoE is: whether lag and losing experience are two things they can deal with. The lag is less of a problem than it was in the past (POE is not a game that's friendly to so-so internet connections IMO). Dying however, especially due to said lag, can be a real demotivater in the end game if your build struggles, because it takes a lot of time played to continue leveling up by that point and dying even once a night consistently can set you back a long ways. For some people that's too much to handle, on top of PoE's um.....zeal for difficulty. (I'm talking a game whose mechanics can freely create monsters that are nearly impossible to kill beyond a certain point. (Love those fucking Summoner + Soul Eater + Regen Rares ><) If you want a mountain to climb for free though, PoE offers it. A mountain covered in blood and spikes and eye-wateringly expensive cosmetic microtransactions.

The style of PoE is a lot like Titan Quest. Angling for realism and grit over flash and being stylized. It can come across as a little drab sometimes, and due to cosmetics being the game's only real cash cow other than stash tabs, your character ends up looking as fugly as the rest of the game unless you're willing to shell out. The story....it frames the world alright but I've never really been in love with it. It holds together ok but around Act III it goes off the rails IMO. I liked the game more when it was about being a scrappy exile trying to serve on this crazy island full of cannibals....before it goes into apocalyptic/demonic matters of import. Still, the game's got a vibe and an atmosphere to match how brutal gameplay can be.

It's a game I can safely come back to year in, year out and pick up where I left off and spend only what I want to. Sort of like Warframe, it's a great F2P solo game where you get out of it what you put into it.

(Just dinged 87 on my Ascendant tonight too! That only took two solid weekends )

[frostshotgg]

The thing about "classic" summoners is that they feel really, really shitty to play right now, mostly because of spectres. Spectres are how they're supposed to get most of their damage, except they're not permanent between logins. Which means every time you start a play session, you have to stop whatever you were doing and go get some new spectres of an appropriate level. This is sorta fine when you're leveling through the regular story content because access to areas is infinite, just go to the hardest Solaris Temple you've unlocked or what have you, but once you reach the endgame content, every single time you want to start doing hard maps, you have to consume a temple map first just so you can play. This wouldn't be too bad, but if you lag out and disconnect, you have to use another map to go back to what you were doing, and that just feels really unpleasant because you spend an absurd amount of time gathering or trading for temple maps in order to play your build.

The other two "summoner" skills are much more fun to play, although impermanent. Summon Raging Spirits basically locks you in place to build up your army which lasts for a whole 10 seconds or less, but does really damn good damage and if something comes after you you can always just leap away. Animate Weapons is like playing Katamari with minions. At the start of every area you have no damage and then you kill a couple things and animate the weapons they drop, and snowball from there. Then you finish the map and do it all again the next one.

[ragnar119]

There is still no d2 necromancer  like class in any arpg game out there. Having a army of around 30 permanent summons following you was so fun and relaxing (some would even say boring, but I loved it).

I'm going to have to say this isn't true.

Must disagree. While 15 summons is a nice number, the gameplay and feel is nothing like d2, and numbers are also lacking. Having vaal skelies and totems (that you need constantly to recast) have very short life, and they act very different than other summons, as they will not follow you, unlike lets say Revive from d2 where mobs last 3 min and will go where you go. The bigger problem is mobs AI and the engine of the game. The closest thing I saw to d2 necromancer was torchlight 2 modded and titan quest also with mods. But thats only in numbers you control, as the gamplay and feel is still different. Maybe the best summoner is actually from different d2 mods that I played few years ago.